[Ken Case]

Originally Posted by sprugman

If the parents of action groups would just pop into the bloody context view, I think your problems would be solved without the overhead of those six extra items. <sigh>

I don't understand how that would work. How would you eliminate the "Grading" group, for example? By replacing it with "Record grades in roster," and making "Grade papers" a child action? But it doesn't really seem to be a logical child, and you could come up with another action that you needed to do after recording the grades (like, oh, securing your notes or something).

[sprugman]

Hmm.... well, I must sheepishly admit that I didn't look at the example all that carefully, and you're right. I guess I mostly wanted to put in another (futile) plug for doing action groups the other way. I'll try to resist that urge in the future. :-)

Others have already written plenty on this, but I frequently find myself jumping back and forth* as I complete actions wondering if that was part of a group which is now done, or might need a bit of brainstorming. I'd like to eliminate that bit of uncertainty by being shown a reminder of the context (not in the GTD sense) of the action when I complete it. I also like the satisfaction of checking off the group when it's done, but the current interface makes that relatively inconvenient.

* or even worse, going through a complete-undo-twin-complete-twin dance to see the action in the context of it's surrounding stuff as I check it off. One thing that might help is if the completed item would retain focus and could be twinned to.

[Ken Case]

Originally Posted by sprugman

I guess I mostly wanted to put in another (futile) plug for doing action groups the other way.

I'm sorry if it feels like giving feedback is futile; we're definitely listening to all of it even if we haven't yet figured out a system that makes everyone happy.

In this particular case, I guess I'm not really sure what you have in mind for doing action groups the "other" way. What would we do differently with, say, the "Grading" or "Handouts" groups in the above example, and how would that alternative be better?

[SpiralOcean]

Originally Posted by Ken Case

I don't understand how that would work. How would you eliminate the "Grading" group, for example? By replacing it with "Record grades in roster," and making "Grade papers" a child action? But it doesn't really seem to be a logical child, and you could come up with another action that you needed to do after recording the grades (like, oh, securing your notes or something).

Ken... please take a look at this website.

http://web.mac.com/stephenzinn/OmniF...on_groups.html

I've detailed Chris's Project in this website using screenshots and manipulated OmniFocus so that it behaves in the following ways:
1. Action Groups can be sequential or parallel.
2. Action Groups appear in the context list.

After creating this example I now believe that allowing action groups to show up in the context list is a critical feature.

My suggestion is to create another grouping in the context list, much like the no context, that shows all action groups with no children.

If the action groups do not appear in some way in the context list,
I believe that people will be fiddling with their OmniFocus software too much, become frustrated with the effort, and stop using OmniFocus.

This is especially true when OmniFocus goes mobile because when mobile a person does not have a full blown version of OmniFocus to fiddle with.

The way that OmniFocus currently works forces a user to constantly be switching back to the projects view to fiddle.

One parameter in your testing of OmniFocus is to see if you can stay in the context view for a day without switching to project view.

Chris... my apologies on the troll comment.
Your attitude has proven me wrong.

Thank you for sharing your outline.

[Ken Case]

Originally Posted by SpiralOcean

Ken... please take a look at this website. [...which concludes...]

Here is the main sticking point for items to show up in context.

It allows me to stay in context.

I don’t have to keep going back to projects to check off a action group in order for the next action items to show up in the project.

Ah, I think I see where things are being misinterpreted: it sounds like you're assuming that action groups block future actions until they're checked off. Actually, since action groups are just a planning tool they're completely invisible to context mode: you can work through all of a project's actions without ever checking off a single action group.

When it comes time to review your project later (in planning mode, which is where I think you want to do such reviews so you can see the group in the context of the entire project), you can quickly review and check off any action groups that are complete.

If action groups were to show up in context mode, I think your suggestion of putting them in their own smart group is a great one. But I think that reviewing and checking them off is really a planning activity that is best suited to planning mode.

[SpiralOcean]

Originally Posted by Ken Case

Ah, I think I see where things are being misinterpreted: it sounds like you're assuming that action groups block future actions until they're checked off. Actually, since action groups are just a planning tool they're completely invisible to context mode: you can work through all of a project's actions without ever checking off a single action group.

When it comes time to review your project later (in planning mode, which is where I think you want to do such reviews so you can see the group in the context of the entire project), you can quickly review and check off any action groups that are complete.

If action groups were to show up in context mode, I think your suggestion of putting them in their own smart group is a great one. But I think that reviewing and checking them off is really a planning activity that is best suited to planning mode.

whew... that's a relief to hear.

Although I still like the idea of them being filtered in the context view.

Especially in that project example.

If a teacher were to set up a project like the one in the website.
They would have multiple action groups to make sure they go back and check off.

That project I detailed out, was for one class... for one day.
So a teacher must have... around 5 of those projects a day, one for each class.

So you are suggesting, they stay in context view, complete all the items, and do a review daily? I guess they could. If they waiting until the weekly review, there would be... 10 of those projects, with about 40 of those action groups for them to check off.

Seems like a lot to check off, when they could be doing it in the context view as they go.

[SpiralOcean]

Maybe I'll go through the project I put up, to see how it would look the way OmniFocus currently works.

I don't think the actions would show up as clearly in the context view. And they wouldn't show up in different contexts as cleanly as the example I posted out.

In the example I posted, a person could easily be switching from one action group to another, working on different actions in different contexts.

In the project I detailed, not allowing action groups to be sequential or parallel forces a user to work on one item of a project at once.

[Ken Case]

Originally Posted by SpiralOcean

In the project I detailed, not allowing action groups to be sequential or parallel forces a user to work on one item of a project at once.

Oh, wait, you listed "Action Groups can be sequential or parallel" in your earlier comment, but I didn't realize that you thought that was a change from the current behavior.

Action groups are already (and have always been) able to be either sequential or parallel.

[SpiralOcean]

Originally Posted by Ken Case

Oh, wait, you listed "Action Groups can be sequential or parallel" in your earlier comment, but I didn't realize that you thought that was a change from the current behavior.

Action groups are already (and have always been) able to be either sequential or parallel.

Really? How do you toggle an action group to be sequential or parallel?

When I look at this project in OmniFocus, I change change the project to sequential or parallel... but in my children action groups, they will only show the first child action. But not all actions of that action group.

[SpiralOcean]

Here is what I am seeing in OmniFocus.
I can't figure out how to get an action group to parallel status?
http://web.mac.com/stephenzinn/OmniF...on_groups.html