[ptone]

If the project has a due date, and an item within the project has a due date - the badge count will read 2 for that project and count as 2 for the enclosing folder total.

Does anyone else find this confusing? On scanning the sidebar it makes me think there are two actions I need to get done...

-P

[Craig]

Originally Posted by ptone

Does anyone else find this confusing?

Yes. I do.

[Tim Wood]

You do, in fact, have two things to do.

First, you need to complete the action. Second, you need to review and verify that there are no more actions in the project that need to be completed and then mark the project completed.

This is a direct result of us not assuming that projects are always in a fully planned state.

[ptone]

I find it very awkward to consider marking a project as completed in OF as one of the things I have to get done for the project. To me this crosses the line of OF being the tool to get something done outside of the software, and not have the software actually be part of the project.

To translate your representation of my task list another way, I would have to add an action at the end read "Mark Project completed in OF". That seems silly, but its essentially what the current state of the count is saying.

I feel pretty strongly that a project is an abstraction, a collection of actions. Other than review and plan, and can't actually DO something for the project that isn't an action. I find this confounding of projects and actions confusing in this regard.

I still suggest that the badges count explicit, but not implicit actions.

-P

[Ken Case]

Originally Posted by ptone

I find it very awkward to consider marking a project as completed in OF as one of the things I have to get done for the project.

Let's say you have a project called "Write term paper" which is due this week. If you haven't entered any actions for that project yet, don't you still want to see that it's coming due? Or perhaps you've entered a few actions ("Buy pencil and paper") and completed them; unless those actions completed the project, it's still coming due!

If you're certain you've already entered all the actions for a project and you don't want it to have an independent reminder of its due status, you could assign a due date to the last action rather than to the project itself.

[ptone]

As the developers, this I think is one of these issues that is impossible to solve perfectly - so take mine as only a single opinion (I have no fear that the team is already good at this!). Overall you guys are doing a stellar job with these sorts of issues.

Originally Posted by Ken Case

Let's say you have a project called "Write term paper" which is due this week. If you haven't entered any actions for that project yet, don't you still want to see that it's coming due? Or perhaps you've entered a few actions ("Buy pencil and paper") and completed them; unless those actions completed the project, it's still coming due!

Good point, how hard would it be to use the project due date towards the badge count if the project was empty, but not if there were actions (even if none of them had due dates).

This would cover the "unplanned" project scenario, but not the trivial items completed scenario. I think having the project count if there are actions without due dates would still lead to the confusion of "What specifically do I need to do (action-wise) by today/soon".

Originally Posted by Ken Case

If you're certain you've already entered all the actions for a project and you don't want it to have an independent reminder of its due status, you could assign a due date to the last action rather than to the project itself.

Like you say, this requires full planning. I guess it just doesn't feel right. Either way you go, there is going to be some uncertainty and confusion, but I feel the "count toward badge" mode is going to be more confusing and harder to document: "The badge shows the number of actions and/or the project itself (if due)"

I guess I've said my piece, I don't know if this had been hashed out by other users earlier on, but I'll let others weigh in on it if they wish.

-P

[joelande]

I like the current implementation.

BUt I also could see the benefit of having a project being marked completed automatically as the last action is completed.

Perhaps this could be a behavior preference?

[bashosfrog]

I too find the dual nature of badges a bit confounding. For preference, I'd like to see badges on folders read something like "3/14" (three projects due, 14 actions due), and no due badging against projects themselves - only badges for due actions.

At the moment, because its Monday and because both projects and actions are flagged due, I look at the mass of badges in my projects list and want to run screaming from the computer. When I look at my Contexts view, without due projects adding to the burden, I just want to run, but quietly. Contexts is a more accurate view of what I face; adding Project due badges adds a level of information that shouldn't be confused with the actions needed to complete them.

I think, overall, there's still some thinking to do on the Projects/Actions relationship. At present, Projects are always subservient to actions. I want to dice my views three ways: to see just Projects in sortable relationship to each other; Projects with their actions; and just actions in relationship to their contexts. OF does the latter two well, but not the first.

[type11]

I think the best solution so far is from a previous thread: make the sidebar display ZERO. If you have 3 tasks left to complete a project then the sidebar should display 3 not 4. The current behavior is inelegant at best.

[brianogilvie]

Originally Posted by type11

The current behavior is inelegant at best.

Chacun a son goût--it's a matter of taste. I find the current behavior quite elegant for the reasons that Ken set out. I'd be disappointed if it changed.