$40? Seriously? [OmniFocus for iPad Pricing Feedback] [Archive]

ssh

2010-07-30, 08:48 AM

curt.clifton

2010-07-30, 09:00 AM

zoom

2010-07-30, 09:00 AM

If $40 is a lot you probably don't need Omnifocus for the iPad.

It's interesting to read about how people relate to the money thing. I guess everyone is in a different financial place or perhaps it's perceived value that is at the root of the issue.

Regardless, to accuse Omni Group of "milking" their customer base is wrong. People need to stop whining and take responsibility for their financial condition.

To those who feel victimized by OG here's a primer on capitalism. They have every right to charge anything they want. It's a market place. If you don't want to pay or can't pay, go somewhere else and buy another product that works within your budget.

My word, it sounds like you're addicted to OG's software.

HiramvdG

2010-07-30, 09:10 AM

Yes, I thought the price was too high, too... But then I realized that if it saves me an hour of my time, it will already have paid for itself.

atreinke

2010-07-30, 09:14 AM

$40 is not to much to pay for a tool that helps you become more efficient. Before OF I used to procrastinate a lot at work, and spent a great deal of time trying to figure out what I should do next. Then I purchased OF, read the GTD book, and probably gained at least an hour of productive time per day. Looking at it that way, it pays for itself in a very, very short time. There are other apps out there that can be used, and do offer some improvements in your workflow, including a simple paper list. But none can match the effectiveness of OF.

I would have paid a lot more for this if OG had decided on a higher price. But, I think they got it right in the range it belongs in.

whpalmer4

2010-07-30, 09:53 AM

Ok, I was one of those anxiously awaiting OmniFocus for the iPad. I have the Mac and iPhone versions. I use them a lot. I was excited to expand my use to my iPad, since I use it for much of my day-to-day work, and having it for maintaining my projects and tasks makes great sense.

But, the price point was high enough that I haven't bought it, yet. I might, but I'm seriously reconsidering my investment in OmniFocus, and I've very disappointed that there wasn't some kind of a 2 or 3 day introductory period when we could purchase it for a more reasonable investment of $15-$20.

Yes, in the grand scheme of life, $40 isn't a huge investment. However, when added to the $20 for OmniFocus iPhone, and $80 for the Mac, it's a little stratospheric. (Not to mention all of my other OmniGroup products!)

I'm pretty disappointed. It seems like you're milking loyalty. And now I'm very torn.
Look, if you bought your favorite movie as a VHS tape eons ago, then as a DVD, and now you just bought a Blu-Ray player, does the studio owe you a discount on a Blu-Ray disc of that title? If you bought a succession of cars from the same manufacturer, do they give you a half off deal if you buy in the first few days of the new model year? Omni does give a big trade-in allowance when you move to the next major version, and none of this business of penalizing people who don't buy every version, either.

Turn the situation around — you're a developer, and you put a whole lot of work and money into building a new version of your app for a new platform. Your customers demand that you give them that new software for little or nothing despite your large investment (an investment, I might add, that could be arbitrarily wiped out by Apple deciding not to approve the final product). Aren't they milking your loyalty to them?

IceWind

2010-07-30, 09:55 AM

To each his own. Personally, I would have gladly plunked down $80 for this app. I've been beta testing it for the past month and use the iPad app more than the Mac version now. It's not an exaggeration to say that OF iPad has more than doubled the value of my iPad to me.

Omni charges what they believe their apps are worth to their users. To me, the money I've spent on Omni products over the years has never been a bad investment. My productivity gains completely swamp the cost of the products.

N ffnc, bt f y'v bn bt tstng ths pp fr ver mnth, y hvn't rlly dn vry gd jb (IMH).

Try going to projects view create a dummy action. Then delete the action by swiping the action to the right. The big red delete button covers about 25% of the date in the same table cell. Yeah, it's not breaking the application or anything... It's just sloppy.

If I'm paying 40 bucks for an application in iTunes, I would expect it to be of far superior quality than the bulk of other offerings, which about 95% of them sell in the region of $1 to $4.

whpalmer4

2010-07-30, 10:03 AM

N ffnc, bt f y'v bn bt tstng ths pp fr vr mnth, yu hvn't rlly dn vry gd jb (IMH).

Try going to projects view create a dummy action. Then delete the action by swiping the action to the right. The big red delete button covers about 25% of the date in the same table cell. Yeah, it's not breaking the application or anything... It's just sloppy.
How do you know Curt didn't report that very issue? You might have noticed that there was a fair amount of pressure to ship the app ASAP. They didn't work the bug list to 0 before submitting to the App Store, and certainly didn't work the cosmetic enhancement list to 0!

f y tll s th nm f yr prdct(s), w'll b gld t chck t th xmpl y'v st, myb w cn lrn hw t s sppsd t b dn!

ssh

2010-07-30, 10:07 AM

Look, if you bought your favorite movie as a VHS tape eons ago, then as a DVD, and now you just bought a Blu-Ray player, does the studio owe you a discount on a Blu-Ray disc of that title? If you bought a succession of cars from the same manufacturer, do they give you a half off deal if you buy in the first few days of the new model year? Omni does give a big trade-in allowance when you move to the next major version, and none of this business of penalizing people who don't buy every version, either.

Turn the situation around — you're a developer, and you put a whole lot of work and money into building a new version of your app for a new platform. Your customers demand that you give them that new software for little or nothing despite your large investment (an investment, I might add, that could be arbitrarily wiped out by Apple deciding not to approve the final product). Aren't they milking your loyalty to them?Guess what?

I am a developer (actually in the business and design side these days rather than writing code) and understand the Apple iOS ecosystem better than most. My suspicion is that OmniFocus would likely dramatically increase their revenues by lowering the per-purchase cost of the app. Impulse buying is a big part of the App Store, and $40 is way above the typical willing impulse buy.

I completely agree that they can charge whatever they want. I also think that they may like to know that at least some of their loyal customers find the pricing out of line. I do. As I said in my post, I may very well spring for the app, but the mixed reviews are not leading me to jump on it today. Had OG offered a "fans" discount for the first few days, I'd already have it on my iPad. Reading the forums, I'm not alone.

Since I already use OF on my other devices, I have to decide if the new iPad app is really a leap for me. Does it buy me enough that I don't already have available with the combination of iPhone and Mac apps? That's unclear. Certainly, the beta users really liked it, but they are more "bought in" than those who didn't have that benefit.

As I said, $40 won't break the bank, but it does give me pause. I am sure I'm not alone. As a result, given that the incremental cost to OG of selling another copy of OF is effectively $0, I am arguing that their revenue and gross profit would benefit from a lower price.

Given their pricing on other products, however, I suspect they don't see it that way. I still don't have Graffle on my iPad for that reason. As with everything, YMMV. But don't jump to conclusions about my "financial state" just because I actually work through this process!

IceWind

2010-07-30, 10:09 AM

How do you know Curt didn't report that very issue? You might have noticed that there was a fair amount of pressure to ship the app ASAP. They didn't work the bug list to 0 before submitting to the App Store, and certainly didn't work the cosmetic enhancement list to 0!

f y tll s th nm f yr prdct(s), w'll b gld t chck t th xmpl y'v st, myb w cn lrn hw t s sppsd t b dn!

Errrm... OmniFocus for iPhone.

Also... See my edit above.

ssh

2010-07-30, 10:13 AM

f y tll s th nm f yr prduct(s), w'll b gld t chck t th xmpl y'v st, myb w cn lrn hw t s sppsd t b dn!Really? My little post about the cost that OG chose has already led us to this kind of uncivil interaction? This red herring doesn't help, and only serves to further the rather inappropriate observation of a single minor UI bug.

whpalmer4

2010-07-30, 10:16 AM

It isn't in Omni's interest as a provider of first-class support, or ours, as users of that support, to vacuum up every last possible customer by dropping the price ever closer to free.

ssh

2010-07-30, 10:19 AM

It isn't in Omni's interest as a provider of first-class support, or ours, as users of that support, to vacuum up every last possible customer by dropping the price ever closer to free.There is an incredibly huge difference in the iOS ecosystem between $40 and free. This is a straw man. I'm simply suggesting that some of us think that $40 is high for this app and that it might even benefit OG to reduce the cost. You don't have to agree, but weak arguments aren't helping your case.

tedhogan

2010-07-30, 10:20 AM

I bought it.

I think $40 is worth it due to the quality and depth of the implementation.

That being said, I feel no compulsion to belittle or berate someone with a different opinion.

joelr

2010-07-30, 10:20 AM

Try going to projects view create a dummy action. Then delete the action by swiping the action to the right. The big red delete button covers about 25% of the date in the same table cell. Yeah, it's not breaking the application or anything... It's just sloppy.

Good eye, IceWind. We are aware of this UI issue, and rest assured there are updates planned to fix this kind of thing. We like to hear from our users when they find bugs or have feedback -- to be sure we see your message, send an email to omnifocus-ipad@omnigroup.com. Thanks!

Joel R
Software Test Pilot
The Omni Group

whpalmer4

2010-07-30, 10:21 AM

Really? My little post about the cost that OG chose has already led us to this kind of uncivil interaction? This red herring doesn't help, and only serves to further the rather inappropriate observation of a single minor UI bug.
Ah, maligning the efforts of a very observant beta tester (Curt) is fine, snarky comments about UI design (delete button overlaps date when about to delete) are fine, but asking the source of said attacks and comments for an example of his higher quality efforts is uncivil. Got it. Thanks for straightening me out! :)

ssh

2010-07-30, 10:27 AM

Ah, maligning the efforts of a very observant beta tester (Curt) is fine, snarky comments about UI design (delete button overlaps date when about to delete) are fine, but asking the source of said attacks and comments for an example of his higher quality efforts is uncivil. Got it. Thanks for straightening me out! :)Nope. Two wrongs don't make a right. His comments were uncivil and so are yours, but you took it up a notch by not simply commenting on his comments, but rather by making assumptions about him and attacking those assumptions. Perhaps he's the author of the most amazing app in the App Store but would rather not share that. Or maybe he knows nothing about UI design. Regardless, your red herring was just that and therefore worthy of additional comment.

It's interesting that I appreciated your comments that I read in other threads and was actually shocked at your responses here. I suspect you now think I'm a bit of an a**, which is true, but I have a strong aversion to logical fallacies in online conversation.

So, I'll go away now. I've expressed my opinion, and OG is likely to ignore it, anyway, but at least they allowed me to express it.

Cheers...

Brian

2010-07-30, 10:31 AM

N ffnc, bt f y'v bn bt tstng ths pp fr vr mnth, y hvn't rlly dn vry gd jb (IMH).

Disagreement is fine, but please do so respectfully. More specifically, don't make ad-hominem attacks on our forums. They will be removed.

magobaol

2010-07-30, 10:39 AM

I've been beta testing it for the past month and use the iPad app more than the Mac version now..

Hi Curt,
I'm very curious about the way you use OF for iPad, especially when you say that you use it more than the mac version. I set up my workflow in a manner inspired by you and your posts, so it is based on several perspectives in project mode, that I miss in OF Ipad as much as other things, like I described in this thread (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=16975). I basically have a perspective to daily review every 1,2,3,5,7 days and so on, and if you still have the same setup, I'm wondering about how you deal with some iPad "limitations".

I'm not sure this is the right thread to discuss about it...

Bye,
Francesco

Brian

2010-07-30, 10:56 AM

you took it up a notch by not simply commenting on his comments, but rather by making assumptions about him and attacking those assumptions.

To be fair, Icewind's post did so as well, just to a different person. That said, I've edited the entire thread up to this point to bring it in line with our forum rules (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=77731#post77731).

I'm hoping I won't have to do too much of this sort of thing today - disagreement is fine on our forums. Please, everyone, just try to keep it respectful and don't go ad-hominem.

msurtees

2010-07-30, 11:11 AM

NO WAY. $40???

They could have made $20 from me but will now get $0.

That's just silly.

Young Daniel

2010-07-30, 11:14 AM

I'm in the middle of a three year, $9000 training courses...keeping myself organized and feeling in control in regards to just that one aspect of my life is worth more then $40 to me.

francola

2010-07-30, 11:20 AM

Thanks OMNI. Would have paid twice that for this awesome app that will help my personal life and business in countless ways!

RiK

2010-07-30, 11:21 AM

Whilst i'll admit i have a few niggles with the ui, personally I've got no problem with the price. Omni focus in its various forms must have saved/made me thousands of pounds over the past couple of years. At my hourly rate it's only about 15 minutes of my time.

The problem with the app store is that people have become used to the idea that anything over $0.99 is somehow 'expensive' and that totally devalues the work put into a major software project. A dedicated GTD app is not a throw-away impulse purchase like the thousands of stupid novelty iFart apps on the store. I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of purchases are made by people who know what they want and realize how useful it is..

msurtees

2010-07-30, 11:26 AM

Omni is just trying to buck the trend that App Store apps for iPhone and Ipads are cheaper than desktop apps.

I wish them luck.

Lyle

2010-07-30, 11:40 AM

Omni is just trying to buck the trend that App Store apps for iPhone and Ipads are cheaper than desktop apps.

I wish them luck.As of this writing, OmniGroup has two apps in the top 20 grossing iPad apps list. OmniFocus is currently at the number one spot, and OmniGraffle for iPad---about two months after its release, and with a $50 price tag---is hanging in there as well.

It would appear that OmniGroup is doing just fine with their pricing strategy. ;)

ksrhee

2010-07-30, 11:48 AM

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but nobody is entitled to disrespect anyone in this forum in my book.

Look, everyone has a different opinion as to how much the program is worth, and we can definitely voice how things are more expensive than we think it should be, but the company has the right to set the price as they see fit, and if we think they are trying to "rob" the buyers (btw, I think $40 is more than reasonable in this case), then we don't have to buy the product, and eventually the company will lower the cost (or go out of business).

At this instant, I don't think Omni is going to lower the price, and if Omni can manage their support better and lower other overhead costs by selling fewer copies at a "premium" price, then so be it. Apple charges a premium price on many of their products as well. Why do people buy premium cars, go to fancy restaurants, etc? Surely, these companies or establishments can attract more customers if they lower the price, but is that wise?

There are many programs that I bought at App Store for .99, 1.99, or 2.99, but they just sit in my iPhone or iPad and gets used only rarely. If I add them up, they would come out to be greater than $40.00. I know OF for iPad will be used every day, and even if I only use it for a year continuously, it would cost about 11 cents per day. I think I can afford to save 11 cents a day for a year to use the program.

Of course, each of us has to decide whether the program is worth the price if is offered at, and nobody should be telling anyone whether it's too much or too low for them.

Just my 2 cents.

Dogsbreath

2010-07-30, 12:40 PM

£23 ($40) was too much, but I paid it anyway. I decided that the ugly interface could be lived with. Even the warty hag might get some cosmetic surgery one day.

Don't complain about the business model though. There are just different ways of doing things. Look at 1Password/Agile Software. I have never seen a bad word written about them. They seem to have a perspective of lets make a lot of people happy with a small price. OG seem to be much more "business-headed" and less hippy-ish. Much more, "squeeze them for how much we can get".

To people who I can see showing an interest in Macs I always recommend Agile. I sometimes recommend OG. I have a warm fuzzy feeling with Agile, but I am smart enough to know that OG don't give a toss about what I think about them.

Is it better to sell less at more or more at less. Only the OG accountants know that.

So pay up if you want the app and don't bother if you don't. There are many more important things in life to worry about.

mhedstrom

2010-07-30, 12:45 PM

Wasgo

2010-07-30, 12:55 PM

OmniFocus on the iPad for $40 is still a better deal than Things on the Mac for $60. Better software for less money.

ksrhee

2010-07-30, 01:10 PM

OmniFocus on the iPad for $40 is still a better deal than Things on the Mac for $60. Better software for less money.

Actually it's $49.95 for Things for Mac. However, the point is well taken. OF for iPad has more features and functionality than Things for Mac . . .

philiporeilly

2010-07-30, 01:17 PM

OmniFocus on the iPad for $40 is still a better deal than Things on the Mac for $60. Better software for less money.

Lets compare same platforms!!! Things for iPad is half the price of OmniFocus iPad. Things for Mac may be $60 but OmniFocus is $80.

I agree with other posters that this could have been price a lot more competitively especially for the iPad.

At work I use my Mac Pro / Macbook and on the road I rather use my iPhone. Anyone with a Wifi iPad like me will most likely be in a location such as home/work with a computer with the desktop version. On the road I have my iPhone to sync. Not sure if paying for a third version on iPad is really worth $40.

ksrhee

2010-07-30, 01:21 PM

Lets compare same platforms!!! Things for iPad is half the price of OmniFocus iPad. Things for Mac may be $60 but OmniFocus is $80.

I agree with other posters that this could have been price a lot more competitively especially for the iPad.

At work I use my Mac Pro / Macbook and on the road I rather use my iPhone. Anyone with a Wifi iPad like me will most likely be in a location such as home/work with a computer with the desktop version. On the road I have my iPhone to sync. Not sure if paying for a third version on iPad is really worth $40.

I think you missed our points. What we are saying, OF for Ipad is a superior product than Things for Mac at a higher price point.

If you want to get Things for iPad at a half price point, go ahead. You will find you can't really use the program for an extended period time w/o getting frustrated due to missing features or lack of functionality.

philiporeilly

2010-07-30, 01:28 PM

MissKaren

2010-07-30, 01:33 PM

I have absolutely no complaints about the price tag on this particular app. For me, the price reflects the quality....and I'm glad that Omni didn't set too low a price. That would signal, to me, the desire to sell as many as possible, thus shifting the focus from quality to "How much money can we make off of this thing?"

When I buy something from Omni, I am not only paying for the actual product, I am also "purchasing" the incredible and ongoing support behind said product. You simply cannot say the same for the majority of apps sold...once they are bought, you are often left "hanging" if you run into any problems....or if you simply have a question regarding proper use. One might need quite a bit of "support", if one is really interested in using OF in every conceivable way, in order to gain max benefits in the practice of "GTD".

With OF on my iPad, I can now "release" any residual guilt I've held, for
spending so much money on a device that is all too easy to use in a "frivolous" manner. No matter how many apps I have bought ( and believe me, it is plenty), none come even close to providing actual functionality when compared to OF.

Thanks OG- lovin' my OF for iPad!

Wasgo

2010-07-30, 01:37 PM

Still though $40 on top of what the majority of customers have already paid for the desktop version and iPhone is a bit much.

Price is an issue for this product. Most reviews / posts online so far today seems to be focusing on the price (either saying its too much or trying to talk up the apps value for the price).

Price is always a point. My point is that the quality of the software isn't lower, simply because it's on the iPad. If this were Mac software, it would be considered an exceptionally good value. That doesn't change just because of the platform.

Things for iPad isn't as good as OmniFocus for iPad, and as previously mention, neither is Things for Mac. Especially given the complete lack of transparency with almost every promised feature or bug fix. While it certainly is an added costs for people who've already bought the Mac or iPhone version, you don't need the iPad version for the Mac and iPhone versions to work, nor do you need the Mac or iPhone versions for OmniFocus for iPad to work.

kcwookie

2010-07-30, 01:46 PM

My hands aren't clean, I had a cow at the price theyncharged for the iPod version. Over time I saw how it kept me on track. I've made much more than I paid thanks to that app. When this version came out, I didn't think twice and just bought it. This is the best version yet. As I was told buy it yes or buy it no, but don't btch. I paid full price because it is a he value to me. If you want a toy, buy one, but if you need the best, buy OF for the iPad..

MissKaren

2010-07-30, 01:48 PM

I am still not understanding...when we decided to purchase an iPad, we purchased a different "platform". Why so much expectation of the purchase price reflecting OF as a "universal application"? It is what it is. I didn't get a real "break" on pricing when I bought "Pages" for my iPad, although I have the iWorks suite on 2 separate MBP. I didn't expect to, either.

GTD

2010-07-30, 01:53 PM

I've purchased ToDo (by Appigo) for the iPhone and iPad. I have the Toodledo app for the iPhone and iPad. I have Things for the iPad, iPhone and Mac. I have Pocket Informant for the iPad and iPhone. I sync the different versions of ToDo and Pocket Informant (and, of course, the Toodledo apps) with Toodledo Pro Plus. When I was on the PC, I bought the Outlook Plugin from David Allen's company, and that really didn't work for me at all.

(I want to say that some of the above apps have many strong positives going for them, and even some advantages over OmniFocus. On balance, though, for my GTD'ing needs, there's just no match for OmniFocus, and, as of today, the ring is solid.)

I tried switching away from OmniFocus after getting the iPad, because I wasn't terribly fond of using OmniFocus for iPhone on my iPad. For me, the new app is easily worth $40.00 (yes, in addition to the cost of the iPhone and Mac editions, which, for me, were also worth it). The most expensive thing about OmniFocus for iPad for me was how long it took for it to arrive--add up the price of all of the items in the first paragraph, and you'll get what I mean (not to mention the time spent messing with the other apps, and now having to copy much of that back over to OmniFocus again).

As of today, I now have my OmniFoci syncing through the Omni Sync Server beta. I'm very happy. $40.00, for me anyway, is a no-brainer here.

(I'm not arguing with those who feel otherwise, I'm just stating how it is for me.)

MissKaren

2010-07-30, 02:00 PM

I tried switching away from OmniFocus after getting the iPad, because I wasn't terribly fond of using OmniFocus for iPhone on my iPad. For me, the new app is easily worth $40.00 (yes, in addition to the cost of the iPhone and Mac editions, which, for me, were also worth it). The most expensive thing about OmniFocus for iPad for me was how long it took for it to arrive--add up the price of all of the items in the first paragraph, and you'll get what I mean (not to mention the time spent messing with the other apps, and now having to copy much of that back over to OmniFocus again).

As of today, I now have my OmniFoci syncing through the Omni Sync Server beta. I'm very happy. $40.00, for me anyway, is a no-brainer here.

(I'm not arguing with those who feel otherwise, I'm just stating how it is for me.)

Oh my, YES!! The amount of money I've spent purchasing various "task managers" while waiting for the appearance of OF for iPad.....it has been a "costly" few months, to say the least!

GTD

2010-07-30, 02:23 PM

Oh, one more thing: I also purchased OmniGraffle for the iPad (I do not have it for the Mac, but am considering it).

In my opinion, the Omni Group (at least with these two apps, as I haven't used their others) elevate the iPad to desktop-level heights, in terms of productivity apps. They don't feel compromised to me. At the same time, they also make good use (especially OmniGraffle in this regard) of the touch interface, to the point where the touch UI feels like an advantage over the mouse and keyboard.

In short, Omni does a great job of making apps I want to use, but that also make my iPad...well...more serious, more professional, for those things I need it to be that way for.

yann

2010-07-30, 02:40 PM

dpvanwormer

2010-07-30, 03:19 PM

Frankly, I was expecting the price to be $50 - and would have paid it gladly. So $40 was a bonus!

I am firmly in the camp that OF has MORE than repaid its cost in value to me. I know the iPad version will also.

Thanks OG! Can't wait for OO for iPad also!

Eye_Doc

2010-07-30, 03:55 PM

There is no question that the software is expensive. However if we want the iPad to be a serious platform and not a 59p (99c) bargain bin of fart apps and casual games then we have to pay for it.

I agree that the combined price is expensive, but we live in a world where it costs money to develop software. It costs money to have developers to develop and just because a couple of years ago they made an iPhone app, doesn't make the iPad app free to develop. It cost more time and took more people to develop. It simply HAD to cost more money.

I welcome Omni into the iPad space. They are making desktop quality apps for the iPad, and the app store would be a lot poorer without them there.

sgecko

2010-07-30, 04:13 PM

based on the desktop program and the ipod app, $40 is exactly what i expected. no issue with that price. it is worth the cost. thanks omni.

Dillinger-63

2010-07-30, 04:57 PM

Ken Case

2010-07-30, 06:16 PM

Thanks, but No Thanks. I really think those of us who had already purchased OF for Mac and iPhone should have gotten some type of a price break. Well, no matter, I'll stick with Things as it meets my needs just fine.

Sorry, our discounting options are limited on the App Store: it doesn't support discounts on the basis of purchase history; we can't even offer discounts to our own employees!

We did take this issue into account when pricing the app, though—we chose a price that's half the price of the desktop app, even though it offers much of the functionality of the Mac app (and some new features such as its Forecast and Review modes) on a brand-new, portable, and very usable platform.

We think it's a great value for software people use everyday and which makes them more productive. We hope you'll think so too, but we also understand that not every customer will have a need to purchase all three editions of the application.

Sprice33647

2010-07-30, 06:37 PM

Based on software pricing in the app store this software may seem expensive. I don't think Omni has any reason to apologize for its pricing. Developing and supporting software products is expensive. Not only does Omni deliver quality products the products under go continuous enhancement. The support provided for defect and user issues is of a level not achieved by most software vendors. To date I have not had to pay for any updates and have been a user of OF since December 2007.

ssh

2010-07-30, 06:47 PM

Sorry, our discounting options are limited on the App Store: it doesn't support discounts on the basis of purchase history; we can't even offer discounts to our own employees!

We did take this issue into account when pricing the app, though—we chose a price that's half the price of the desktop app, even though it offers much of the functionality of the Mac app (and some new features such as its Forecast and Review modes) on a brand-new, portable, and very usable platform.

We think it's a great value for software people use everyday and which makes them more productive. We hope you'll think so too, but we also understand that not every customer will have a need to purchase all three editions of the application.Ken, thanks... I can appreciate this.

I was hoping for an introductory special, but, again, I understand. I'm still thinking about it. I'd give it a 70% probability that I'll end up purchasing it. But, I still think that you could likely do better in terms of your business profitability with a slightly lower price driving a higher volume. Guess we'll never know, tho! ;)

niels

2010-07-30, 08:17 PM

If you think about the classic GTD premise that it will save you 2 hours a day, how quickly do you think $40 will be absorbed in productivity boosts?

In that regard, as an owner, of the iPhone, iPad & OmniFocus family pack versions, I can say that the $180 combined I've spent is a bargain compared to the productivity boosts it has let me achieve.

MutantSquid

2010-07-30, 08:22 PM

FWIW, Check out the incredible amount of communication from Ken and the rest of the Omni team in regards to OmniFocus iPad over the last few weeks.. That, and the app itself, are well worth the money.

bnz

2010-07-31, 12:19 AM

pnuding

2010-07-31, 01:15 AM

ksrhee

2010-07-31, 02:30 AM

Whatever you think of the $40 price point, your examples are pretty bad choices... The movie industry is probably the #1 in terms of milking its customers to the max... 3D anyone?

As for the car analogy, the real parallel would be if people were complaining that they don't get a discount on OmniGraffle or some other OG app...

The real problem here is that you've never had to pay for each install of OmniFOcus on all your computers until now. But the hardware landscape has changed and now you do... Omni could have put together a slightly upgraded version of the iPhone app, make it universal, and call it a day. They decided instead to go all out and make a kickass app specifically for the iPad. It makes sense... And although I'd bet the commercial aspect had at least something to do with it. I think they were mostly excited by the potential of the new device and the opportunities it created in terms of UX and UI.

Still though... You used to be able to buy an app and install it on all your Macs. Now suddenly, you have to buy a new app for each new device you own, even when they share the same OS. They don't force you to buy it. But they don't go out of their way to make you feel they appreciate your business either...

Just sayin'

Your analogy is flawed as well. You are not buying the application for your Mac, but completely different platforms. I think Apple made it clear when they introduce these devices, that's how they see them-different platforms.

If you bought a BMW car, would you go to BMW and complain that you are not getting a discount on their motorcycle? For that matter, would you complain that they are not bundling their motorbikes with scooter/moped, and now their bicycle? BMW makes all these different vehicles, but you are expected to buy each on separately. In the same token, you had to pay for iPhone, iPad, and Mac separately since they are three different devices. Why do you now complain that software or accessories you have to buy these would not behave in the same way?

I get it that some people are complaining about how expensive the program is. Well, not all programs are going to be selling at the price you want. Do you go to BMW and complain that their car is too expensive compared to a Hyundai? If you think a Hyundai, which is a fine car, meet your needs, then buy it. If you think a BMW meets your need better, then prepare to pay a higher (premium) price.

Let's move on.

ksrhee

2010-07-31, 02:36 AM

I think the thing you have to ask here is whether the $40 price tag seems reasonble when comparing it to the functionality and price of its competitors. The truth is, I switched from Omnifocus Mac+iPhone to Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo. When Omnifocus for iPad came out, I wanted to switch back. I have bought Omnifocus for iPad and I am unhappy with it - it won't make me switch back. I am not reclaiming my money as I have the hope that the Omni guys will fix the problems, but with Todo 4 around the corner (just received an announcement mail yesterday or so), they play a catch-up game that is hard to win - especially at this price point. And Appigo and all the others are certainly no bigger companies than Omnigroup, however, they still manage to make a living off these affordable prices.

That's great that you found those programs meet your needs. I for one tried those for a few days and scrapped them since they do not come even close (for me) meeting my needs to task management programs. I won't go into details as to where they fall short here since it will take up too much space, but judging from other posts, I'm not the only one.

Again, to each his/her own. If you find other program work for you and the price meets your need, go for it! If you think OF doesn't and it's too expensive, don't buy it. However, please do not accuse Omni for behaving badly or make inferences about their motives.

ksrhee

2010-07-31, 02:42 AM

Well, it's a bit of a deja vu. When OF came out for the iPhone it made me scratch my head for a while, then eventually I bought it.

This time around it simply won't happen. I think the added benefit of having the iPad in addition to the Mac and iPhone I already have for OF is not in balance with its price. If it had been another $5 ok, but not like that.
Also one needs to see the context that OF is not likely to exist stand-aline on an iPad, you will usually have at least a Mac with another paid copy.
I also find an iPad/iPhone universal app would have been much more elegant.

Anyway, I hope you guys have thought through the part of the market you want to cater to, the risk of alienating users and the opportunities you create for the competition.
I for my part won't buy it and I certainly won't recommend it at this price point

As far as I'm concerned, OF for iPad can definitely act as a stand-alone application. So, some people will only be paying $40, not $120 (if you own all three). For that matter, another competition's product cannot be used as standalone at this point due to missing features. In that case, you would have to pay $70 for the program since you need both desktop and iPad version. So, which one is cheaper?

I know how hard Omni folks worked to bring this application to iPad; so, if you think they deserve a few dollars for their efforts, then I have to disagree vehemently.

You can still use their iPhone application in their iPad. So, you don't have to purchase a separate iPad application if you don't want to.

Just another perspective on this matter.

BwanaZulia

2010-07-31, 03:02 AM

I don't care it is $40. I just care about the bugs, crashing and issues with functionality.

BZ

bnz

2010-07-31, 03:37 AM

That's great that you found those programs meet your needs. I for one tried those for a few days and scrapped them since they do not come even close (for me) meeting my needs to task management programs. I won't go into details as to where they fall short here since it will take up too much space, but judging from other posts, I'm not the only one.

Again, to each his/her own. If you find other program work for you and the price meets your need, go for it! If you think OF doesn't and it's too expensive, don't buy it. However, please do not accuse Omni for behaving badly or make inferences about their motives.

Come on. These defensive 'don't critize Omni' phrases are driving me mad in this thread. Why wouldn't I? This sounds almost like you are an Omni employee playing an incognito customer. It's really funny. You claim that OmniFocus is superior to other products, yet you are trying hard to find a reason not list the reasons (because they of course would be too long). You claim that the Omnifocus is so much superior and that people using the cheaper apps just don't have enough to do. However, the point of my criticism is exactly that: that you can't focus with Omnifocus in the way to list the todo items efficiently, because everything is too huge, empty project items are listed, etc. etc.. There is just too much information on the screen, too little organization, and everything is just much too big. You can't concentrate on what is relevant. I wouldn't critize the price if the product was what you claim it to be, but it simply isn't.

Edit: I just learnt that there apparently should be an item "Perspective" in the OF sidebar. But I don't have it. This may make my criticism superfluos (except for the sluggish and huge UI), but I still don't know how to get this sidebar item...

RiK

2010-07-31, 03:40 AM

If it had been another $5 ok, but not like that.

So you're saying you feel OF is worth less than a coffee in Starbucks or a burger from McDonalds? If you're gaining even the slightest benefit to you productivity it's got to be worth a *lot* more than that.

If this app saves me just 15 minutes it's paid for itself.

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 03:48 AM

There is just too much information on the screen, too little organization, and everything is just much too big.
I'm reminded of the old complaint:

"the food is terrible and the portions are too small" :)

Why do you want things smaller if there is already too much on the screen?

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 03:52 AM

Edit: I just learnt that there apparently should be an item "Perspective" in the OF sidebar. But I don't have it. This may make my criticism superfluos (except for the sluggish and huge UI), but I still don't know how to get this sidebar item...

Here's a thought: do you have some perspectives defined on the Mac, and if so, are they all project-based? The iOS OmniFocus apps only support context-based perspectives at the moment. I wonder if perhaps seeing that there are perspectives synced over, but none of the right type, might cause the code to not show the perspectives sidebar entry at all.

bnz

2010-07-31, 03:56 AM

I'm reminded of the old complaint:

"the food is terrible and the portions are too small" :)

Why do you want things smaller if there is already too much on the screen?

I am primarily referring to those "no next actions" projects that are listed even tough they don't add any value. They occupy so much space that you have to scroll to get to the relevant information. Also, the whole nested structure is absolutely unnecessary. I just want to see my tasks and not how they are nested. A plain list with a project breadcrumb would have been perfectly sufficient.

bnz

2010-07-31, 04:00 AM

Here's a thought: do you have some perspectives defined on the Mac, and if so, are they all project-based? The iOS OmniFocus apps only support context-based perspectives at the moment. I wonder if perhaps seeing that there are perspectives synced over, but none of the right type, might cause the code to not show the perspectives sidebar entry at all.

Can't say at the moment. My Mac is at home. You must be able to define perspectives on the device for a $40 app. Requiring the user to buy another $80 Mac version in order to make the app actually usable is ridiculous.

endoftheQ

2010-07-31, 04:02 AM

Come on. These defensive 'don't critize Omni' phrases are driving me mad in this thread.

OK, I'm on your side of the fence, bnz! Omni have all the pieces, they just don't seem to have an overall picture, so they appear unable to do the jigsaw.

At the prices Omni charge (heroically ignoring Mr. Job's advice to "price competitively, go for volume"), they should have products that slay the opposition. I'm sorry, IMHO, they don't even come close. The only reason we stick with OmniFocus is the rock-solid sync. If another software house brings out a competitive product offering that, along with a consistent GUI, is cross-platform, feature rich, and - oh, cream! - has a multi-user capability, we'd be off like a shot.

I've seen major software houses (let's be honest, Omni is a minor player) obliterated overnight by newcomers to the game. You only have to look at the fate of some of their previous offerings, Omni- Web, Dazzle, Dictionary, Sweeper et al, to realise they need to focus and get a grip!

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 04:37 AM

Can't say at the moment. My Mac is at home. You must be able to define perspectives on the device for a $40 app. Requiring the user to buy another $80 Mac version in order to make the app actually usable is ridiculous.

I'm confident that at some point in the future you will be able to do so. Send in your vote with Contact Omni so that they can accurately judge how important this feature is to the user populace. Expecting every possible feature from an app that costs twice as much, in the 1.0 revision, no less, is a bit unrealistic.

bnz

2010-07-31, 04:58 AM

I'm confident that at some point in the future you will be able to do so. Send in your vote with Contact Omni so that they can accurately judge how important this feature is to the user populace. Expecting every possible feature from an app that costs twice as much, in the 1.0 revision, no less, is a bit unrealistic.

Right. But I expect every feature in the 1.0 that makes the app usable and not crippled by a coupled necessity to another $80 app making it a total of $120 (without the iPhone app). I don't think they state anywhere that the featureset is crippled without Omnifocus for Mac. You could say that this is dishonest. The iTunes text says "Use OmniFocus for iPad on its own, or sync with...". On its own, it is crippled.

amorya

2010-07-31, 05:11 AM

It's not crippled. Crippled implies it's artificially limited in order to upsell you. I would wager that the limit was based on development time and on getting a good user experience on a new platform.

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 05:15 AM

Right. But I expect every feature in the 1.0 that makes the app usable and not crippled by a coupled necessity to another $80 app making it a total of $120 (without the iPhone app). I don't think they state anywhere that the featureset is crippled without Omnifocus for Mac. You could say that this is dishonest. The iTunes text says "Use OmniFocus for iPad on its own, or sync with...". On its own, it is crippled.

I find it hard to reconcile it being crippled by the lack of perspective editing when perspectives are still experimental on the iPhone app! Perspectives are certainly a powerful feature, but the app is very functional without them. However, if you feel you have been misled into purchasing, contact Omni and they'll refund your money if you ask in the first 30 days.

endoftheQ

2010-07-31, 05:53 AM

I find it hard to reconcile it being crippled by the lack of perspective editing when perspectives are still experimental on the iPhone app!

Oh c'mon, whpalmer4, according to Omni, Landscape mode is still an experimental feature.... !

ksrhee

2010-07-31, 05:56 AM

I find it hard to reconcile it being crippled by the lack of perspective editing when perspectives are still experimental on the iPhone app! Perspectives are certainly a powerful feature, but the app is very functional without them. However, if you feel you have been misled into purchasing, contact Omni and they'll refund your money if you ask in the first 30 days.

Yes, I don't think the program is "crippled" in any way. Compare to the competition, I think OF for iPad offers more features than others. For instance, in one program, you can't even create a simple repeating task in their iPad version.

I would suggest folks who are unhappy, apply for a refund. The process isn't that difficult - just send Omni an email.

ksrhee

2010-07-31, 06:00 AM

Come on. These defensive 'don't critize Omni' phrases are driving me mad in this thread. Why wouldn't I? This sounds almost like you are an Omni employee playing an incognito customer. It's really funny. You claim that OmniFocus is superior to other products, yet you are trying hard to find a reason not list the reasons (because they of course would be too long). You claim that the Omnifocus is so much superior and that people using the cheaper apps just don't have enough to do. However, the point of my criticism is exactly that: that you can't focus with Omnifocus in the way to list the todo items efficiently, because everything is too huge, empty project items are listed, etc. etc.. There is just too much information on the screen, too little organization, and everything is just much too big. You can't concentrate on what is relevant. I wouldn't critize the price if the product was what you claim it to be, but it simply isn't.

Edit: I just learnt that there apparently should be an item "Perspective" in the OF sidebar. But I don't have it. This may make my criticism superfluos (except for the sluggish and huge UI), but I still don't know how to get this sidebar item...

I'll keep the conversation civll. I do not work for Omni at all. I did beta test their iPad application, but that's all my involvement.

I used to do reviews mobile devices and applications on the webs awhile back, but I just don't have the time to do a detail review on these programs to do them justice these days. I was merely sharing my personal opinion on what I thought of these programs. When I find time in the future, I might do a detail review of pros/cons of each program.

Do I think OF for iPad is perfect? No. There are features that need to be in place. Believe me those features were even suggested during the beta phase, but Omni has to make a decision as to when to cut off the feature addition. Otherwise, you would still be waiting to get the program, and judging from what I saw, folks wanted the program in April.

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 06:01 AM

Oh c'mon, whpalmer4, according to Omni, Landscape mode is still an experimental feature.... !

And rightly so — it is full of bugs!

endoftheQ

2010-07-31, 06:07 AM

And rightly so — it is full of bugs!

Oh? So this is the platinum standard, premium priced product that we're all supposed to rave about? OK, let me guess... I have to vote for the landscape bugs to be fixed... [sigh...] :rolleyes:

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 06:45 AM

You at least have to report them to be sure they are aware the bug exists. A bunch of landscape bugs that I've reported in the past seem to have been fixed; I think there's a misconception going around that a bug won't be fixed unless everyone and his brother complains. However, if Brian tells Ken that 3 dozen people have complained about something not working right, I'm pretty sure that Ken takes a look at the issue as soon as he gets a chance. One person complaining 3 dozen times about the same issue may not get quite the same response, however :) I reported about 8 of them (for the iPod/iPhone app) while doing the iPad testing, but inexplicably, none of them seem to have been fixed yet. I wonder why :rolleyes:

Many of the landscape bugs I'm referring to come up when you change the orientation of the phone when the app is launching, or doing something that takes more than an instant to render. Display ends up drawn in landscape, with an overlaid keyboard in portrait, for example. Others are just things that look bad, but still work. I still spend much of my time on the iPod using it in landscape mode, so they aren't crippling by any stretch of the imagination.

bhughes

2010-07-31, 07:00 AM

I think the thing you have to ask here is whether the $40 price tag seems reasonble when comparing it to the functionality and price of its competitors. The truth is, I switched from Omnifocus Mac+iPhone to Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo. When Omnifocus for iPad came out, I wanted to switch back. I have bought Omnifocus for iPad and I am unhappy with it - it won't make me switch back. I am not reclaiming my money as I have the hope that the Omni guys will fix the problems, but with Todo 4 around the corner (just received an announcement mail yesterday or so), they play a catch-up game that is hard to win - especially at this price point. And Appigo and all the others are certainly no bigger companies than Omnigroup, however, they still manage to make a living off these affordable prices.

I currently use Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo and am very interested in Omnifocus for iPad, and am VERY curious why you are not switching back to Omnifocus for iPad. Your perspective is of value to me since you are already using the same combination of apps that I am. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

bnz

2010-07-31, 07:46 AM

Ok. Just wrote the Omni support a lengthy email explaining again my complaints. I basically stated that I don't want a refund if they acknowledge the shortcomings and they intend to fix them. On the other hand, I take the refund if they really believe that the app is better than the alternatives and that it is reasonably priced for what it does :D For me, it's all about the attitude. Everyone makes mistakes. But you got to have the attitude to acknowledge what went wrong. Having said that, I somehow got the perspectives entry appear in my sidebar after fiddling with it in OmniFocus. That "Due view" should have been there from the beginning. It's madness not to have it in there by default - it really IS the most important view you need. I probably would not ever have started to complain (at least not that early) if that entry was there from the beginning.

I currently use Todo on iPhone+iPad+Toodledo and am very interested in Omnifocus for iPad, and am VERY curious why you are not switching back to Omnifocus for iPad. Your perspective is of value to me since you are already using the same combination of apps that I am. Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks!

I listed them already in this thread and the review thread. With the perspectives, OmniFocus for app is usable, but it is not without it - so if you don't have OF for Mac, you probably won't be able to get that sidebar entry. I only got it by fiddling with the OF for Mac and syncing with it. Does it bring me any considerable advange over Todo that justifies almost 10 times the amount of money? No, not really. But I lose the web interface of Toodledo. I don't know. The people who claim that OF is so much better than Todo and/or Toodledo probably have never worked with it. I find this combination highly efficient. On the other hand, having a good Mac client is nice to have as well. You don't have that with Todo and Toodledo. But then, something simple like sorting after priority first, and then after due dates doesn't seem to be possible with OF. Honestly, I am completely torn. If there is some signal from Omni that they plan to make it right in the next few months, I may switch back to OmniFocus I guess.

Fireproof

2010-07-31, 07:58 AM

I'm one of those that have bought all the competing options too. Ugh.

Things just isn't an option. Not only are try missing key functionality, but the syncing via wifi only is just a non starter for me. Plus if you have iPhone and iPad apps and make a change on one, you have to manually sync to the Mac then sync again to the other idevice. Really?

I really like ToDo for the iPhone and used it for a while. But hated having to use Toodledo I a web browser on my Mac. I really prefer a Mac client. Plus, while it works, syncing via toodledo is clunky. If appigo had a Mac client, I'd have been tempted to stick with that platform for less money.

So all things considered, the seamless cloud syncing across three devices with a solid Mac client makes OmniFocus the winner. Even if I think the prices are a little high and the GUI not as elegant.

bnz

2010-07-31, 08:07 AM

I really like ToDo for the iPhone and used it for a while. But hated having to use Toodledo I a web browser on my Mac. I really prefer a Mac client. Plus, while it works, syncing via toodledo is clunky. If appigo had a Mac client, I'd have been tempted to stick with that platform for less money.

I've never had problems with the Toodledo syncing. And while I do not use the web interface a lot, I think it is really good that you _can_ have access to your todo lists anywhere where there is a web browser. This is even more important to me than a Mac client, because I have an iPad Keyboard dock at home and in the office. So I don't even need to use a computer for my Todos, I just use the iPad.

Fireproof

2010-07-31, 08:30 AM

I've never had problems with the Toodledo syncing. And while I do not use the web interface a lot, I think it is really good that you _can_ have access to your todo lists anywhere where there is a web browser. This is even more important to me than a Mac client, because I have an iPad Keyboard dock at home and in the office. So I don't even need to use a computer for my Todos, I just use the iPad.

I meant clunky in that you can only sync some things for free but others (subtasks) require subscription. I tend to be allergic to subscriptions. :p

I hear you about the benefit of the web. But I am fine with my iPhone for anywhere access and don't really care for Toodledo's look and feel of the web client.

curt.clifton

2010-07-31, 08:34 AM

That "Due view" should have been there from the beginning.

Just double checking, you did try the Forecast view, right?

bnz

2010-07-31, 08:41 AM

Just double checking, you did try the Forecast view, right?

The forecast is of limited use. It helps you to see what is due on a specific day, but it doesn't provide an overview over the next few days (or the next week) at once. You would have to click on each day to see whats on it. Furthermore, while I assign due dates to each task, some of them need to be worked on with a different priority. I need to have those high priority tasks with a possibly later due date always in my sight. I think GTD dictates that a task must not be longer than a specific amount of time, but this simply isn't practical or possible for all kinds of tasks. To a limited degree, this can be modeled with the perspectives and the flagging. But still, it feels like the App doesn't want to give me the views that I need.

hypotyposis

2010-07-31, 08:51 AM

I think GTD dictates that a task must not be longer than a specific amount of time

Hmm... I don't remember seeing that. DA says that anything <2mins should be done right away, but there's no specification on maximum time on a task. It's actually an interesting debate for some specific types of work, e.g. (in my case) when I was completing my dissertation: requires many not-so-discrete tasks that are not always quantifiable in time. Time-blocking seems to work well for some stuff as well (assuming it's not a task that has to be completed in a humongous amount of time and without interruption).

hypotyposis

2010-07-31, 08:53 AM

Btw, apologies to all for trolling the OF iPad forum while not being a user yet... I'm living vicariously until my school stops sitting on my loan disbursement (they have to generate interest on it since they can't directly screw us now that the gov't owns the loan...).

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 08:55 AM

The forecast is of limited use. It helps you to see what is due on a specific day, but it doesn't provide an overview over the next few days (or the next week) at once. You would have to click on each day to see whats on it.
What if you could select multiple days in the forecast?

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 08:59 AM

Hmm... I don't remember seeing that. DA says that anything <2mins should be done right away, but there's no specification on maximum time on a task. It's actually an interesting debate for some specific types of work, e.g. (in my case) when I was completing my dissertation: requires many not-so-discrete tasks that are not always quantifiable in time. Time-blocking seems to work well for some stuff as well (assuming it's not a task that has to be completed in a humongous amount of time and without interruption).
Yeah, there's no upper limit other than practicality. Dividing things into smaller chunks will help you get started on an enormous task, hence the whole next action business. DA does suggest that things in the inbox that can be done in 2 minutes or less should simply be done on the spot, not deferred.

bnz

2010-07-31, 09:02 AM

Hmm... I don't remember seeing that. DA says that anything <2mins should be done right away, but there's no specification on maximum time on a task. It's actually an interesting debate for some specific types of work, e.g. (in my case) when I was completing my dissertation: requires many not-so-discrete tasks that are not always quantifiable in time. Time-blocking seems to work well for some stuff as well (assuming it's not a task that has to be completed in a humongous amount of time and without interruption).

Yeah, I could create a repeating task so that I could work on it every day, but then the due date is on daily basis, there would be no "final" due date or "repeat until". Also, the repetition is kind of faulty. The next repetition is only created when the last one is checked. If I now use the forecast view, it doesn't display the repeated task on all days where I would have to work on it, but just the first one. It kind of hides the work that you have to do.

hypotyposis

2010-07-31, 09:08 AM

Yeah, I could create a repeating task so that I could work on it every day, but then the due date is on daily basis, there would be no "final" due date or "repeat until". Also, the repetition is kind of faulty. The next repetition is only created when the last one is checked. If I now use the forecast view, it doesn't display the repeated task on all days where I would have to work on it, but just the first one. It kind of hides the work that you have to do.

So I don't know what kind of task you're working with/your workflow type and therefore whether this would apply or not, but I've had quite a bit of success using time-blocking for some stuff (i.e. setting aside chunks of time to do specific work in my calendar, not on OF at all).

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 09:13 AM

Yeah, I could create a repeating task so that I could work on it every day, but then the due date is on daily basis, there would be no "final" due date or "repeat until". Also, the repetition is kind of faulty. The next repetition is only created when the last one is checked. If I now use the forecast view, it doesn't display the repeated task on all days where I would have to work on it, but just the first one. It kind of hides the work that you have to do.
That's only one way to do it. If it is important to see the future work, instead of making a daily repeater, you make a set of 5 or 7 that each repeat weekly, or 10 or 14 that repeat bi-weekly, or whatever.

As for knowing when to stop, put in an action with a start date that tells you it's time to get rid of that repeating action...

bnz

2010-07-31, 09:27 AM

That's only one way to do it. If it is important to see the future work, instead of making a daily repeater, you make a set of 5 or 7 that each repeat weekly, or 10 or 14 that repeat bi-weekly, or whatever.

As for knowing when to stop, put in an action with a start date that tells you it's time to get rid of that repeating action...

Lol, oh my. This isn't at all a workaround for something that the app should do in the first place ;-)

I find time blocking too inflexible. Maybe I want to work on my big task for 2 hours, then work on some other tasks for a while, because the other thing is driving me mad. So I guess the best thing I can do for now is flag my important tasks and create a perspective that groups flags and sorts due dates. However, I like the priority based sorting in Todo better.

hypotyposis

2010-07-31, 09:32 AM

However, I like the priority based sorting in Todo better.

Back to the debate on GTD and priorities? :D

whpalmer4

2010-07-31, 09:33 AM

Lol, oh my. This isn't at all a workaround for something that the app should do in the first place ;-)
I'm all about getting things done with the tools at hand. If you have the luxury of waiting around until the perfect bespoke toolset comes your way before getting to work, that's great. I get the impression that most people who come here looking for help aren't in that boat.

drgardner

2010-07-31, 09:36 AM

bnz

2010-07-31, 09:45 AM

Back to the debate on GTD and priorities? :D

Well, errrr. In the case of Todo, I just use them to not lose track of what is important. Otherwise, in both Todo and Omnifocus, the important things would easily move somewhere way down in the list.

hypotyposis

2010-07-31, 10:08 AM

Well, errrr. In the case of Todo, I just use them to not lose track of what is important. Otherwise, in both Todo and Omnifocus, the important things would easily move somewhere way down in the list.

Just in case you haven't seen what Curt once referred to as "the mother of all threads"... http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=3836

ksrhee

2010-07-31, 10:09 AM

The people who claim that OF is so much better than Todo and/or Toodledo probably have never worked with it. I find this combination highly efficient. On the other hand, having a good Mac client is nice to have as well. You don't have that with Todo and Toodledo. But then, something simple like sorting after priority first, and then after due dates doesn't seem to be possible with OF. Honestly

Well, I think this is rather presumptuous on your part. I have all these applications and more in my iPad and before OF for iPad, I tried them all. In fact, I have iPhone applications for these programs as well, and tried them all.

I'm glad that you find these programs serve your need and please continue to use them.

I for one do not; so, let's stop it here.

I'm puzzled though why you are so worked up "against" OF for iPad when you find these other program satisfactory and suit your needs . . .

BwanaZulia

2010-07-31, 10:10 AM

Just in case you haven't seen what Curt once referred to as "the mother of all threads"... http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=3836

Oh god... I hope that thread dies some day.

BZ

hypotyposis

2010-07-31, 10:12 AM

oh god... I hope that thread dies some day.

Bz
:d :d :d :d :d

EDIT: apparently the "mother of all threads" doesn't appreciate irony on its behalf... So my smilies remain "disemvoweled"...

dave_m

2010-07-31, 10:21 AM

I don't necessarily have a problem with the price tag - I've used the OmniOutliner-based precursor to OmniFocus, and was one of the first purchasers of OmniFocus for the Mac as well as the iPhone. It's a tool, and I get more than enough value for what I'm paying for the different versions of the application.

My frustration with the price stems largely from Omni's decision to - first - refund iPhone app buyers $25 and then - second - to change that to just a refund of the original purchase price. But at the same time, they're doing nothing for people who have already invested in both versions of the application (and, in many cases, have purchased a variety of other Omni applications, family versions, upgrades, etc.).

I totally understand why you might feel this way, but I think Brian addressed this really well in series of comments on our blog last night:

I’m really sorry that the reimbursements left you feeling like we didn’t care about you; we didn’t intend to make folks feel that way. Whenever possible, we want customers to feel good about us and the products they purchase from us. We know we’ll never reach 100% customer satisfaction, but we’re going to try to get as close to that mark as we possibly can.

I’m hoping it’ll help to clarify the reasoning behind the purchase reimbursements we’re doing. They aren’t meant as a sales gimmick or a “new customer discount”. In fact, it’s not a discount at all; we’re reimbursing the purchases a specific group of customers made. Customers with iPads but no iPhone. (Will some folks with both devices take advantage of this program? Probably. Don’t like it, wish they wouldn’t, but hey, them’s the breaks.)

Why? So they can buy the product they really wanted - OmniFocus for iPad - without paying the extra cost of the iPhone product they were using temporarily.

Ideally, all of our applications would have been available on iPad launch day, but our team is not big enough to do that. When we decided that OmniFocus for iPad wouldn’t be available at iPad launch day, part of the reason we did that was because the option of using the iPhone app on the device was there.

Now that the iPad application is ready, iPad-only customers can use either product. Customers with both devices can either buy both products, or use the iPhone application on both. And if someone wants to use the iPhone app on their iPad to save some money, they should have that option. That’s great.

What we didn’t want was to collect *extra* money from someone that was willing to wait for us to finish the iPad application and use the iPhone one in the meantime. We want those folks to spend the same amount as everyone else that chooses to buy OmniFocus for iPad.

I think another thing that caused confusion was that we were originally planning to reimburse with iTunes gift cards, which only come in $15 and $25 varieties. Since there was no perfect option, we chose the latter, but it’s clear that made some folks feel even more left out.

Between that issue and the problems with getting international purchasers gift cards in the right currency, we switched to a plan where folks can have their purchase reimbursed via a mailed check maid, a Paypal transfer, or credit on our store.

It wasn’t communicated well, and I take personal responsibility for that. It was and is well-intentioned, though, so I’m doubly sorry it left a bad taste in your mouth.

time-limited sales make one group of people - the ones that get the discount - happy. Unfortunately, there’s another group - the people that don’t - who end up unhappy that they missed out. The longer your application is around, the larger that second group gets: folks hear that there was a sale and someone else paid less than they did.

Worse, people don’t end up in either group on the basis of loyalty - folks who hear about the sale and buy get it. Folks on trips, without ‘net access, who were busy, or who just plain forgot are left out and feel bad.

We have some of the best customers anywhere and we really appreciate them - but we would prefer to earn our customers’ loyalty with great applications, fair treatment, and top-notch support. We feel those are far more valuable in the long run.

st0w

2010-07-31, 02:21 PM

I've been in the industry for fifteen years, so I do understand what it takes to develop, test and release a quality application. And I don't fault Omni for making the decision to price OF for iPad at a point which they felt was appropriate, given the development investment.

Unfortunately, as a customer who purchased the OSX version and iPhone versions immediately at release, the $40 purchase of this version is at a point I feel to be too high on top of all the other purchases. I personally wouldn't expect it to be $5, that's not realistic for an app of this quality. But I do feel $20-25 is more in line with the application.

I wish Omni the best, but I'm at a point where I feel like I'm not willing to keep investing money if there is never going to be incentivized pricing for pre-existing customers.

pmdf

2010-07-31, 03:08 PM

I think this thread has been an interesting discussion, because it raises a lot of issues about perceived value, and it has the benefit of a clearly informed group of people getting involved. The level of discussion on this forum is far more evolved than most other forums I'm involved in!

The only issue raised that has riled me so far - not on these forums so much, but elsewhere - is one or two people commenting that "if you can't afford" OF for iPad then you don't need it. Affordability is a straw-man, as many would technically be able to "afford" paying a four or five figure sum for something if they had to pay out such an amount, but we don't base our purchasing decisions solely on affordability, we base them on our perceived value of the product.

As a developer myself, I'm a fan of the "per-user" rather than "per-machine" model. If I buy or sell a piece of software aimed at the desktop market, I like the user to be able to install it on all their systems without having to pay per machine. But that's becoming an old world model... OmniFocus for Mac is an entirely different piece of software than OmniFocus for iPhone, which is again different to OmniFocus for iPad. Each iteration has had their own entirely separate development costs, so we can't expect them to be priced on a per-user basis. To be fair, some software companies are eating up the costs and releasing universal versions of their software which don't require the end-user to splash out more cash... but would you happy if OF for iPad was merely a port of the iPhone app? I doubt it, and so there are development costs involved in creating a new application.

The biggest issue is that OG's prices are, not twice or three times as much as their competitors on the app store, but often ten times as high. That's always going to raise debate, and quite right too... But that's an issue for the entire industry, and the fact that I (and most of you guys too probably!) have paid the price means that we believe it a price worth paying. I tried Pocket Informant for £3.99 and concluded it was a waste of space. I've now spent £23.99 on OF, and for anyone using it in a professional capacity, that will pay itself back in no time, but price still has to be justified. I can absolutely understand people raising price as an issue, especially those not already familiar with the desktop and iPhone version of the product who won't want to risk such an investment just to give it a try. Despite that, I still think OF is the best value on the market.

I think the one thing OG could have done to mitigate any frustration is introducing an introductory price that would let those of us who have already bought in (financially and metaphorically) to the desktop and iPhone product get a little discount. That would have made me feel all warm and cuddly toward OG. But, they have no obligation to do so, and I bought the product regardless, and it's a great product. But the price point was always going to cause debate... and so it should, because OG are leading the pack in testing whether iPad owners are prepared to stump up proper money for proper apps.

chipjoyce

2010-07-31, 04:05 PM

It is absurd to complain about the price of this software. Do you have any basis, at all, to justify the claim it is too expensive?

Also, to somehow think the software should be cheaper because there are already Mac and iPhone versions, indicates you clearly do not understand that these are all distinct pieces of software and have distinct investments in development.

You have to realize that Omnigroup is a small, specialized software shop that builds high quality and sophisticated software. It necessarily must be priced higher than simpler software, or software that has millions of customers.

Dillinger-63

2010-07-31, 06:10 PM

Sorry, our discounting options are limited on the App Store: it doesn't support discounts on the basis of purchase history; we can't even offer discounts to our own employees!

We did take this issue into account when pricing the app, though—we chose a price that's half the price of the desktop app, even though it offers much of the functionality of the Mac app (and some new features such as its Forecast and Review modes) on a brand-new, portable, and very usable platform.

We think it's a great value for software people use everyday and which makes them more productive. We hope you'll think so too, but we also understand that not every customer will have a need to purchase all three editions of the application.

Then why not an Introductory Price? Other App developers do.

howiem

2010-07-31, 06:14 PM

Given my experience with Omni generally, I have no problem with the price at all. Regular updates and a responsive staff are worth their weight in gold.

Fireproof

2010-07-31, 06:16 PM

Then why not an Introductory Price? Other App developers do.

Dave_m just answered this one page back by quoting Brian:

time-limited sales make one group of people - the ones that get the discount - happy. Unfortunately, there’s another group - the people that don’t - who end up unhappy that they missed out. The longer your application is around, the larger that second group gets: folks hear that there was a sale and someone else paid less than they did.

Worse, people don’t end up in either group on the basis of loyalty - folks who hear about the sale and buy get it. Folks on trips, without ‘net access, who were busy, or who just plain forgot are left out and feel bad.

We have some of the best customers anywhere and we really appreciate them - but we would prefer to earn our customers’ loyalty with great applications, fair treatment, and top-notch support. We feel those are far more valuable in the long run.

Nicolas_Thomsen

2010-07-31, 11:40 PM

I just took a trip to London bringing only my iPad and I must say sitting in your bed, and just using your iPad to do your weekly review while you have the view of Big Ben outside your windows feels great.

I know some people critisise OmniGroup for the price, but it my opinion its a bargain at 40$. I would have paid 200$ for this app. It is without a doubt the best iPad app I have every tried and it literally makes me happy to open it every time I do.

I have a love/hate relationship to the App Store pricing tendencies. On one hand its nice to get great apps at a very affordable price, but on the other hand serious developers like OmniGroup who clearly put so much time and effort into their products gets critisised for setting the price of their apps just a little higher. I remember a time pre iPhone where every app for Windows Mobile would cost at least 20-30$ and they were literally crap compared to this lump of gold OmniGroup has created and names OmniFocus for iPad.

Just my 2 cents

endoftheQ

2010-08-01, 12:18 AM

I think finally, for me, it all comes down to the App Store generating a constant expectation of low pricing. I've become used to apps costing a few bucks, so anything above that seems outrageously overpriced. To put it in context (!) I just had to arrange to convert a few videos in the WMV format onto an iPhone. I had to buy QuickTimePro at thirty bucks, plus Flip4Mac at another thirty bucks. A total of $60!

OmniFocus on the iPad now looks quite the bargain. :)

jkiley

2010-08-01, 09:03 AM

I'm surprised that people are surprised by the price. Agree or not, Omni has priced their previous two iPad apps at half (give or take cents) the Mac app non-discount price. OmniFocus for iPad follows that pattern. The pricing strategy seems pretty clear.

Personally, i hoped for a little lower price, but i expected and paid $40. The app is well worth it, and the delay and launch features show a lot of commitment to the priorities of users.

I do think the discussion of the effects of pricing on units and thus total revenue is an interesting one. For many smaller companies, the overhead costs (e.g. user support, management) of generating more revenue eats more money than it produces in profit (from an actual loss or opportunity cost). That could be at work here.

Chris Hogan

2010-08-01, 09:57 AM

What got me hooked two years ago was the desktop version of OmniFocus, which was a trial version, if I remember correctly. I was hooked within a week, and have not looked back since. To complain or whine about the price is quite silly and shows the value placed on this app.

There are many GTD Apps out there, that are either free, 99 cents, or a little bit more. OmniFocus is for serious individuals, that want things done in a certain way. We all have different ways of managing our daily lives, and completing the tasks that are set before us. What I love about this app, all 3 versions, is that no matter where I am, I can stay up to date, with all that I have to do.

I have posted comments, running up to the iPad release, of how I use OF in my business. I am the one at my place of work that is the administrator of our projects, and all of the tasks associated with each of them. The main reason is that I have the desktop/laptop version. There are 3 coworkers, who are family members, that have the iphone versions as well. It has been very easy for them to push task entry and task management to me, so they did not have to on their iPhones. There is only one Mac at the office, which is mine. I gladly have done the hard work of administering OF in the past, but now the 3 family members, and two employees can get iPads, and start doing more.

For $40, Omni Group is going to make enough money, so that they can keep developing great apps, for serious people, and mot have to cater to the whiners. Thank you Ken for giving us drag and drop, and the Move feature, which has been lacking from the iPhone version.

Please update the desktop version to add the Forecast view. I'm now going to enter due dates on all of my tasks, because I can actually see what's coming up easily. The way it's done on the desktop, I have avoided doing.

knit2day

2010-08-04, 08:38 AM

I think you missed our points. What we are saying, OF for Ipad is a superior product than Things for Mac at a higher price point.

If you want to get Things for iPad at a half price point, go ahead. You will find you can't really use the program for an extended period time w/o getting frustrated due to missing features or lack of functionality.

I did. I didn't. Very happy with Things, thanks all the same. Your mileage may vary. I appreciate this is an OF forum so - for what it's worth to anyone paying attention: the UI is important to me (I have to look at this thing regularly) as well as the functionality. OF has too little of the former and has the same problems with the latter that I have with Windows: too much opportunity to tinker with the system instead of actually getting stuff done. I have two careers (currently dealing with working on 5 technical books plus a regular tax lawyer caseload) and a home life to deal with so there's enough to get done that I don't need to add "tweaking the GTD system" to it.

I keep lurking here just to see whether OF could produce something better but - as far as I can tell from screenshots and reviews - it hasn't. And I'm not going to spend $40 to verify that, given the sunk costs of OF/Mac and iPhone already incurred and no longer used. At $20 I would probably have tried it out, to see whether an iPad version was less likely to have tinkering-distraction potential (I don't use Things on iPad, it offers no functionality over Mac+iPhone) - and whether or not the massive font really would cause client confidentiality problems if I tried to use it in public.

ksrhee

2010-08-04, 08:54 AM

I did. I didn't. Very happy with Things, thanks all the same. Your mileage may vary. I appreciate this is an OF forum so - for what it's worth to anyone paying attention: the UI is important to me (I have to look at this thing regularly) as well as the functionality. OF has too little of the former and has the same problems with the latter that I have with Windows: too much opportunity to tinker with the system instead of actually getting stuff done. I have two careers (currently dealing with working on 5 technical books plus a regular tax lawyer caseload) and a home life to deal with so there's enough to get done that I don't need to add "tweaking the GTD system" to it.

I keep lurking here just to see whether OF could produce something better but - as far as I can tell from screenshots and reviews - it hasn't. And I'm not going to spend $40 to verify that, given the sunk costs of OF/Mac and iPhone already incurred and no longer used. At $20 I would probably have tried it out, to see whether an iPad version was less likely to have tinkering-distraction potential (I don't use Things on iPad, it offers no functionality over Mac+iPhone) - and whether or not the massive font really would cause client confidentiality problems if I tried to use it in public.

I'm glad that you found Things to your liking and that's great. Not everybody has to like OF or any one program for that matter.

For me, lack of nested projects, mixed project (previous version didn't support this), repeating tasks as project tasks (also lack of this feature in iPhone and iPad is incredible) are all shortcoming I couldn't live with. Also, not being able to customize the views as I like them (perspectives) didn't help either. Of course OTA sync is icing in the cake for Omni.

Again, to each his/her own.

patgallant

2010-08-04, 09:15 AM

$39.99 is exactly what I thought the price would be and didn't flinch as soon as it showed up in the app store... bought it immediately and have no regrets.

gopi

2010-08-04, 11:38 AM

I appreciate this is an OF forum so - for what it's worth to anyone paying attention: the UI is important to me (I have to look at this thing regularly) as well as the functionality. OF has too little of the former and has the same problems with the latter that I have with Windows: too much opportunity to tinker with the system instead of actually getting stuff done. I have two careers (currently dealing with working on 5 technical books plus a regular tax lawyer caseload) and a home life to deal with so there's enough to get done that I don't need to add "tweaking the GTD system" to it.

Personally, I really like the UI of OmniFocus on the iPad. It doesn't have lots of frilly stuff just to be cute, but IMHO it goes beyond utilitarian and actually looks good. I think OF/iPad looks like good, clean design rather than Soviet style utilitarianism. I haven't used Things on the iPad but I prefer the OF screenshots.

Your points about tweaking the GTD system are valid. I do think that OF on iPad discourages tweaking compared to the desktop version. If Things does what you need without tweaking, that's great: I think it's always good if you can use a tool without tweaking. For me, the lack of nesting is simply a deal killer for Things.

endoftheQ

2010-08-06, 06:42 AM

A quote from a recent post on TUAW.

Demos might not be a big deal for a US$0.99 app, but once you start edging over $5, it starts to become more and more of an issue. By $10, I'm giving it serious thought, and by $20, I'm pretty hesitant. What if something is priced at over $20? Well, let's just say that I've been looking forward to OmniFocus for the iPad for a long time, but I still haven't bought it.

Follow this link (http://www.tuaw.com/2010/08/06/dont-get-too-excited-about-the-app-stores-try-before-you-buy/#continued) for the full article.

emory

2010-08-06, 09:37 AM

Talk about Stockholm syndrome -- people defending Things in spite of being unable to sync away from your local network. Laughable.

Don't apologize for people that clearly don't get it.

Ninja Edit: $40 isn't that much money for software. This whole notion that you can do everything you want on a $5 application is hilarious. If you don't need OmniFocus, they don't want you to buy their application. It isn't targeted at you. You want something with petty colors and a calendar? Buy that instead.

It isn't any skin off their nose, since they don't want to support a user that wants a glorified calendar or todo list. They're in a different business, ffs.

Microsoft Word is an expensive text editor! FileMaker Pro is an expensive address book! Excel is an expensive calculator. Photoshop is an expensive photo viewer, and my Airport Extreme is an expensive DHCP server.

OmniFocus is an expensive series of todo lists.

But it's a bargain as a trusted system for implementing Getting Things Done. If you don't need it, you don't need it. For most people using it, that's maybe an hour's worth of work. Small price considering 50 hours a week being that much better because of it.

CatOne

2010-08-07, 01:08 PM

Small price considering 50 hours a week being that much better because of it.

Or like 25 hours/week if you're French.

Vramin

2010-08-07, 04:14 PM

When I first read that Omnifocus would cost me another $40 for the iPad version I was pretty annoyed, but yesterday I went ahead and took the plunge. I'm thrilled in a few ways, largely because a lot of the user interface design is brilliant and simple to use - I'm hopeful that the desktop version will become more like the iPad UI. The Forecast view is fantastic as well. If anything I wish I hadn't bought the iPhone version. I don't use it much, and with this interface I'll probably rarely have occasion to reach for it.

I currently have Omnifocus on my personal machine, the company machine, and my iPhone. With the iPad release I will be able to retire the instance on my company machine (I don't like putting my personal stuff on the company hardware, so I run it all off of a flash drive) and do a *lot* less syncing.

Overall, $40 well spent.

Now, if only I could find myself using Omnigraffle on the iPad more... I spent the money for it, too, but I rarely ever use it...

endoftheQ

2010-08-10, 08:14 AM

Now, if only I could find myself using Omnigraffle on the iPad more... I spent the money for it, too, but I rarely ever use it...

You and me both, Vramin, I used OmniGraffle a couple of times and decided I preferred a different, less expensive, App.

I'm awaiting the release and pricing of OmniOutliner on the iPad with interest, to see whether it has enough compelling features to make me dole out the dosh and replace CarbonFin's Outliner.

gopi

2010-08-10, 11:34 AM

You and me both, Vramin, I used OmniGraffle a couple of times and decided I preferred a different, less expensive, App.

Do you mind telling me which app?

I'm very happy with OmniGraffle for certain kinds of diagrams. But I find myself feeling like some different tools might help for other diagrams.

endoftheQ

2010-08-10, 12:38 PM

Do you mind telling me which app?

Hi Gopi,

I used to use OmniGraffle for blue-sky stuff, mind-mapping, etc. as I don't find tools such as OmniFocus or Outliner conducive to exploring problems.

However, for creating mind-maps I always seem to gravitate back to iThoughts (http://www.ipadmindmap.com/iPadMindmap/Welcome.html), which I really like. I also use iMandalArt (http://iphone.mandal-art.com/imandalart-e/) which, in my experience, people either loathe or love, but for me is the ultimate dumping ground for anything I want or need to think about. I've yet to find any other App that lets you 'play' with your problems!

I've opened up a List your favourite Apps thread in the Omni Lounge, click this link (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=17155) to go there. I'd be interested in hearing of any Apps you've found worthwhile.

Dillinger-63

2010-08-10, 01:08 PM

Hi Gopi,

I used to use OmniGraffle for blue-sky stuff, mind-mapping, etc. as I don't find tools such as OmniFocus or Outliner conducive to exploring problems.

However, for creating mind-maps I always seem to gravitate back to iThoughts (http://www.ipadmindmap.com/iPadMindmap/Welcome.html), which I really like. I also use iMandalArt (http://iphone.mandal-art.com/imandalart-e/) which, in my experience, people either loathe or love, but for me is the ultimate dumping ground for anything I want or need to think about. I've yet to find any other App that lets you 'play' with your problems!

I've opened up a List your favourite Apps thread in the Omni Lounge, click this link (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=17155) to go there. I'd be interested in hearing of any Apps you've found worthwhile.

Another thumbs up for iThoughts and you can import/export to MindJet Mind Manager.

endoftheQ

2010-08-10, 01:45 PM

Another thumbs up for iThoughts and you can import/export to MindJet Mind Manager.

I was worried that I'd be the only one who thought iThoughts was a nice App, thanks Dillinger-63 for voicing your support. :)

I've always found it a bit odd that Omni doesn't implement OPML import-export across its programs. I mean, why do I have to bugger around in OmniOutliner to get stuff over to OmniFocus, yet even bizarre Apps like iMandalArt have the ability to import-export OPML as standard.

Marcus Sommer, over in the Omni Lounge, makes an intriguing case for an OmniGroup format, which I think is an excellent idea, click this link (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=16214) to take a look.

brandall10

2010-08-10, 01:45 PM

I love iThoughtsHD.

I'm actually working on a way to sync it to OFiPad, on the iPad, by pulling OPML from DropBox and using that to create a new project within my OF sync file on a WebDAV server. Should be slick if it ends up working like I hope.

RiK

2010-08-10, 02:48 PM

Another thumbs up for iThoughts and you can import/export to MindJet Mind Manager.

Double thumbs up from me too. I just purchased it today having seen it mentioned on here and it's awesome. I've tried a few mind-mapping apps on the Mac but with the touch interface it's a much more fluid experience. Very nice indeed.

endoftheQ

2010-08-12, 03:35 AM

I've added comments that apply to this thread over on OmniGraffle for iPad, click here (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?p=83227#post83227) to take a look.

Pg34

2010-08-14, 07:30 PM

Purchased OmniFocus to use on my MacBook because of it's ability to sync with the iPhone. Have had my iPad for awhile waiting for the iPad version. It is now available and I find I need to pay $40.00 for yet another license. Way to much to have acces on my iPad. Very disappointed. :mad:

Pg34

2010-08-14, 07:35 PM

Completely agree!

Pg34

2010-08-14, 07:38 PM

Maybe all the loyal followers should donate all this extra money they have to Omni so they price the ipad version so I'm not rebuying the app all the time

whpalmer4

2010-08-14, 10:25 PM

Maybe all the loyal followers should donate all this extra money they have to Omni so they price the ipad version so I'm not rebuying the app all the time

It's a new app, why shouldn't they be paid for it? If it isn't of sufficient value to you, don't buy it!

endoftheQ

2010-08-15, 03:01 AM

It's a new app, why shouldn't they be paid for it? If it isn't of sufficient value to you, don't buy it!

whpalmer4, you've hit the nail-on-the-head. It's not a question of price-point but value-for-money.

I don't think of myself as price sensitive. However, having downloaded OmniGraphSketcher (c'mon guys, no data import?!) and OmniGraffle for iPad and deleted both of them, bought into OmniFocus for iPad and thought "meh!" I'm not sure that I'll be so cavalier in purchasing OmniOutliner, OmniPlan and OmniWeb for the iPad as they get released.

Perhaps there is a 'value' that I'm not perceiving in the current crop of Omni's premium-priced products against competitors, it doesn't seem from reading other Member's comments that I'm alone in that. If there is such a 'value', Omni is failing to inform and educate a long-term user like myself about what the benefits exactly are.

As I've mentioned in other threads, an OmniGroup format would probably make the suite compelling to me, but I'm not holding my breath that's ever going to happen.

If I'm missing the point, happy to be enlightened! :confused:

ksrhee

2010-08-15, 03:18 AM

whpalmer4, you've hit the nail-on-the-head. It's not a question of price-point but value-for-money.

I don't think of myself as price sensitive. However, having downloaded OmniGraphSketcher (c'mon guys, no data import?!) and OmniGraffle for iPad and deleted both of them, bought into OmniFocus for iPad and thought "meh!" I'm not sure that I'll be so cavalier in purchasing OmniOutliner, OmniPlan and OmniWeb for the iPad as they get released.

Perhaps there is a 'value' that I'm not perceiving in the current crop of Omni's premium-priced products against competitors, it doesn't seem from reading other Member's comments that I'm alone in that. If there is such a 'value', Omni is failing to inform and educate a long-term user like myself about what the benefits exactly are.

As I've mentioned in other threads, an OmniGroup format would probably make the suite compelling to me, but I'm not holding my breath that's ever going to happen.

If I'm missing the point, happy to be enlightened! :confused:

I think herein lies the issue. Value is such a personal or relative thing that it's not easy for anyone to quantify. Would someone who paid $$$$ for Audi R8 would perceive value for money versus someone who paid $$ for Toyota would for their Corolla. The Corolla is a great car mind you, but a person who purchased the Audi might find his Audi more valuable than the Corolla regardless of its price. Also, complaining to Audi that their R8 costs too much money won't do any good as long as there are people who perceive value in that car and purchase it.

So, each one of us need to decide for our own whether OG's applications (e.g., OF, Graffle, Sketcher for iPad) are worth the price (valuable).

Then, if you think it's not worth it, then don't buy it. We can debate this issue ad infinitum on this forum, but we won't get anywhere. Also, keep complaining about the price won't get you anywhere I'm afraid since OG won't lower the price at this point.

Greg Jones

2010-08-15, 03:27 AM

Features and benefits are easy to describe-the Omni Group does a good job of communicating that. Value on the other hand is very subjective. The features that one user might find value in, another user might find totally worthless. What I believe sets the Omni products apart from the rest of the pack is there is no risk in seeing if they offer value to you. Don't find value in OmniGraphSketcher or OmniGraffle for the iPad? Still think that OmniFocus on the iPad is 'meh'? Then ask for a refund (http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/30_day_guarantee/) in the first 30 days and you've risked nothing. I can't imagine a better way to communicate the value of a product than letting the user decide for his or her self.

steve

2010-08-15, 10:32 AM

If I could afford an ipad, then I wouldn't even blink about dropping $40 for the ipad version of omnifocus. I borrowed an ipad for a week and OF on the ipad was awesome!

davidogren

2010-08-15, 07:18 PM

I too am having problems reconciling the $40 price. The bottom line is that my original workflow was to plan on the Mac version and then execute on the iPhone. When I got my iPad, I started doing a little of that execution on the iPad instead.

And although I don't like using apps designed for the iPhone on my iPad (it's just a waste of screen space and design), it's more than good enough for that simple task. I always assumed that I'd upgrade when the iPad version of OmniFocus came out, but I have a hard time spending $40 when the current system works just fine.

If I didn't have the iPhone version, I don't think I'd have a problem. I do understand Omni's desire to keep their software prices sustainable. But with a working version already, it's hard to justify the price.

Maybe if I could convince myself that I'd do reviews or project management on the iPad if I got the newest version. But the Mac version still seems the best version for planning.

Sigh.

gopi

2010-08-15, 08:06 PM

Maybe if I could convince myself that I'd do reviews or project management on the iPad if I got the newest version. But the Mac version still seems the best version for planning.

I've been using OF since the beta. I kept telling myself I would do reviews. I never ended up doing them.

I've been doing reviews very frequently since the iPad version came out.

I was using the iPhone version "modified" to be full screen on my iPad. Much better than screen doubling. The genuine iPad version was so much of an improvement that I can't live without it.

zoom

2010-08-16, 07:24 PM

It's a free country....

I love OF and would pay much more. You may feel that it's too expensive and there are a number of other cheaper applications for you to consider.

Personally, I consider it a no-brainer in that it is very inexpensive relative to the value provided. It's my trusted system and is the most powerful GTD app that I've found.

Todd412

2010-08-16, 11:21 PM

Agree with zoom... for me, the value provided by omnifocus is almost immeasurable. It may well be the only reason I can juggle as many projects as I do without going crazy.

Also the way it allows me to offload all the myriad of ideas and plans from my brain into a system where I know nothing will slip through the cracks is an incredible stress reducer. I got my wife hooked on it as well and while she's not as fanatical about it, her experience is similar.

endoftheQ

2010-08-18, 02:35 AM

Would someone who paid $$$$ for Audi R8 would perceive value for money versus someone who paid $$ for Toyota would for their Corolla.

I'm genuinely trying to understand your point ksrhee, but if you bought a Bentley and discovered that a Mini had a better build quality, would you feel the same way?

As previously stated, I'm not price sensitive but I've learnt a lot about myself from this and similar threads. I am, along with some others, value sensitive.

Back in the 1970's I bought a Rank Xerox word processor that cost more than a house. It was value for money then because there wasn't anything else out there that did anything like it. OK, the years went by and IBM and Olivetti came onto the WP pitch, and prices plummeted. Few people younger than myself even remember that these companies existed in computing, let alone at one time dominated the WP market at such a price point.

If Omni had priced, at say, three or four hundred bucks, or (God-forbid!) three or four thousand, at what point what would even the most loyal users have said "just not worth it"?

I have felt, and maybe I'm alone in this, that Omni has sold premium-priced iDevice Apps and then expected me to be a beta tester! If anyone wants to evaluate a comparison, and can afford it, take a look at iThoughts, TaskPaper or Carbon Fin's Outliner if you want to see what I was hoping Omni would exceed at 2x, 5x, 10x the price, not fail to match.

We're definitely going to get import into OmniGraphSketcher for iPad as soon as possible. For 1.0 we were faced with a short timeframe...

We haven't prioritized the data inspector because it's a tough UI question

Really? Sorry, Dave_M, I don't understand who demanded a short time frame that justified releasing an expensive but inferior product? If anyone wants to download VVI's Graph App (it's free!), you'll see that they managed to implement data import and the ability to edit the underlying data of graph, not blithely say that it's "a tough UI question".

Sorry about that! Documentation update is on our radar screen; just didn't want to hold the iPhone/iOS 4 release until after we completed the docs for OmniFocus for iPad.

So... many... projects... at... same... time! :-)

I talked to our Documentation Author about this and we should have PDF Manuals for OmniGraffle for iPad and OmniGraphSketcher for iPad available soon. In the meantime sorry for any inconvenience!

Am I alone in expecting a premium-priced product to be released with up-to-date user info. not the response that equates, in my mind, to "haven't got around to it because we're too busy releasing another expensive App"? I don't believe a current up-to-date user manual at the point-of-sale of a $50 App is too much to expect.

Then ask for a refund (http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/30_day_guarantee/) in the first 30 days and you've risked nothing.

You're right Greg. I could have done that. I didn't in the same way I've spent more on bad lunches and not bothered to ask for my money back! However, it does mean that I'm going to be pretty reluctant to give that business any more of my dosh.

It may be that Ken is sitting on a cash mountain and is flitting between the Hamptons, a chateau in France and a yacht moored somewhere in the South Pacific. Hopefully, in that case, for Member's who stick around, he'll maintain Omni as a hobby, even if the revenue stream dries up, which could be due to a significant number of us not being concerned about what Omni charges as long as it's value-for-money! :eek:

ksrhee

2010-08-18, 03:17 AM

I'm genuinely trying to understand your point ksrhee, but if you bought a Bentley and discovered that a Mini had a better build quality, would you feel the same way?

As previously stated, I'm not price sensitive but I've learnt a lot about myself from this and similar threads. I am, along with some others, value sensitive.

If Omni had priced, at say, three or four hundred bucks, or (God-forbid!) three or four thousand, at what point what would even the most loyal users have said "just not worth it"?

I have felt, and maybe I'm alone in this, that Omni has sold premium-priced iDevice Apps and then expected me to be a beta tester! If anyone wants to evaluate a comparison, and can afford it, take a look at iThoughts, TaskPaper or Carbon Fin's Outliner if you want to see what I was hoping Omni would exceed at 2x, 3x, 10x the price, not fail to match.

You're right Greg. I could have done that. I didn't because I've spent more on bad lunches and not asked for a refund. However, I am probably not going to repeat the scenario. It may be that Ken is sitting on a cash mountain and is flitting between the Hamptons, a chateau in France and a yacht moored somewhere in the South Pacific. Hopefully, in that case, for Member's who stick around, he'll maintain Omni as a hobby, even if the revenue stream dries up (due to a significant number of us not being concerned about what Omni charges as long as it's value-for-money)! :eek:

I thought I made myself clear, but apparently you still don't get the point. You and I have a different value perspective, and I'm fine with that as my previous post states, but it seems like you are not, and you are trying to preach to everyone yours is the correct one. If not, I apologize in advance, but that's the perception I'm getting from a number of posts you posted.

If Omni had priced OF at $100, then I would have to assess whether it's worth it. I have spent more than $50 on iPad task applications before Omni released theirs; so, I guess I might still feel that way at a higher price point if I thought Omni made something I want to use every day.

Also, as Greg said that you could have asked for a refund within first 30 days. If you bought a Bentley when you could be happy with a Mini, then you should trade it in, or return the Bentley and get a Mini if you thought the Mini offered a better value. Besides, it's not like someone had paid $250,000 for OF, it's $40. Last time I checked, I paid more than that for dinner for 2 at a local restaurant . . .

Let's move on.

endoftheQ

2010-08-18, 03:44 AM

I thought I made myself clear, but apparently you still don't get the point. You and I have a different value perspective, and I'm fine with that as my previous post states, but it seems like you are not, and you are trying to preach to everyone yours is the correct one. If not, I apologize in advance, but that's the perception I'm getting from a number of posts you posted.

Apologies ksrhee, I'm not trying to 'preach to everyone [mine] is the correct [value perspective]'. I'm always grateful and feel privileged when other Member's take the time-and-trouble to attempt to understand what I'm experiencing and give me the benefit of their experience (take a bow, whpalmer4!) helping me appreciate a different point-of-view and get past, what I freely admit, may have become a fixed idea.

If Omni had priced OF at $100, then I would have to assess whether it's worth it. I have spent more than $50 on iPad task applications before Omni released theirs; so, I guess I might still feel that way at a higher price point if I thought Omni made something I want to use every day.

I completely accept that you've found OmniFocus for iPad valuable enough to warrant the price, however, with all due repect, other users haven't.

Also, as Greg said that you could have asked for a refund within first 30 days. If you bought a Bentley when you could be happy with a Mini, then you should trade it in, or return the Bentley and get a Mini if you thought the Mini offered a better value.

I didn't say that I'd be happy with a Mini over a Bentley. I said that if the Mini had a better build quality than my Bentley, having paid 10x the price, I wouldn't exactly be delighted.

Besides, it's not like someone had paid $250,000 for OF, it's $40. Last time I checked, I paid more than that for dinner for 2 at a local restaurant . . .

OK, for some people $250,000 would be the point they would be value sensitive. I have to understand that for others it's $50.

Let's move on.

OK, anyone who feels this issue is 'over' doesn't need to post to this thread. However, even if you're not interested, ksrhee, I am. If it's over, this thread will naturally fall to the back of the Board. In the interim, sorry, if I'm not willing to be dictated to! :rolleyes:

Ken Case

2010-08-18, 04:39 AM

Really? Sorry, Dave_M, I don't understand who demanded a short time frame that justified releasing an expensive but inferior product? If anyone wants to download VVI's Graph App (it's free!), you'll see that they managed to implement data import and the ability to edit the underlying data of graph, not blithely say that it's "a tough UI question".

The point of OmniGraphSketcher is in the name: it's a tool for sketching graphs, with a goal of making it as easy to draw a graph on a computer as it is to do on a chalkboard or piece of paper. As far as I know it's the only tool of its kind.

Being able to graph imported data is also useful, but that's not the primary purpose of OmniGraphSketcher—if that's what you're looking for, you'll find Numbers to be a better (and less expensive) tool.

Am I alone in expecting a premium-priced product to be released with up-to-date user info. I don't believe a current up-to-date user manual at the point-of-sale is too much to expect.

Each of our iPad applications comes with its user manual built into the application. In our document-based applications you'll find this in the document picker; in OmniFocus you'll find it in the gear menu next to Settings.

It may be that Ken is sitting on a cash mountain and is flitting between the Hamptons, a chateau in France and a yacht moored somewhere in the South Pacific.

Wow. I'm not sure you realize how inexpensive our apps are compared to typical full-featured productivity applications. You might take a look at the monthly subscription fees for eProductivity (http://www.eproductivity.com/ICA/eproductivity.nsf/dx/pricingplans) or BaseCamp (http://basecamphq.com/signup), and compare their limitations on the number of projects or contexts with what you're able to do in OmniFocus.

OmniFocus is just $39.99. Not $39.99/month, but $39.99—for software that will give you value for months and years to come.

I completely accept that you've found OmniFocus for iPad valuable enough to warrant the price, however, with all due repect, other users haven't.

If you don't feel that our apps are valuable enough to warrant their prices, please do take advantage of our 30-day money back guarantee (http://www.omnigroup.com/blog/entry/30_day_guarantee/)! We want all our customers to receive amazing value from the applications we create, but we know that they aren't for everyone—and if you have even the slightest regret about your purchase, we absolutely want to make that right.

brandall10

2010-08-18, 08:21 AM

Wow. I'm not sure you realize how inexpensive our apps are compared to typical full-featured productivity applications.

So Ken, you don't have a yacht?? For shame :o:D

Regardless of people's standards of value, OFiPad is priced at a high premium compared to its competition given the high-volume app-store model. Enough that it clearly sticks out because of it, when in Rome and all that jazz. Compared to traditional software distribution it is rather cheap. So I feel this thread is helpful for those stuck in this quandary, to go through these motions to calibrate their value compass. I find it interesting how a good friend of mine is a millionaire several times over and obsesses about things such as an $8 sandwich not living up to his expectations - that he would have enjoyed it more if it cost $6. Perhaps that's how he got to where he is, who knows.

That said, the fun of a philosophical discussion aside and time being money, most people contributing likely make more per hour than this app costs. The more vocal people perhaps have spent more than the app's cost reading and sharing their thoughts here. Just something to consider in the grand scheme of things.

As a personal note, I've tried a couple other task managers and nothing stuck. OF has been integrated into my workflow for the past couple weeks, and today I forgot my iPad. Going back to pen and paper is downright medieval!

whpalmer4

2010-08-18, 09:04 AM

I'm genuinely trying to understand your point ksrhee, but if you bought a Bentley and discovered that a Mini had a better build quality, would you feel the same way?

Since you bring up 70s products and live in the UK, how would you feel if you splashed out for a 70s Jaguar, maybe an E-type with that impossibly long hood stretching out in front of you, and discovered that just about everything ever made had a higher-quality electrical system? Might you not still prefer your Jaguar to something more reliable (and considerably less expensive), even if all your friends insisted on giving you those "All the parts falling off this car are of the finest British manufacture" bumper stickers? ;)

Who do you think has more fun at their club meetings, the folks regaling each other with their tales of (mis)adventure, or the ones who report "terribly reliable, no problems with mine, shall we meet again next year?" and adjourn?

braver

2010-08-18, 12:35 PM

I've just perused endoftheQ complaints and must say I agree with many of them -- although, still, I did buy the whole lineup. Except, I also bought OmniDazzle for Mac, waiting to ask for that $15 credit when it went free against my next purchase from Omni; I wanted to buy OmniGraffle for Mac, but Brian claimed too much time has passed and they have no mechanism to refund -- lame, I passed on the OG/Mac and will keep passing on principle until the said mechanism is developed.

The marketing strategy of Omni works on the Mac, and it works on the existing customer base. The forums here are amazing -- compare it with Things, for instance, half-clueless, helpless to a point of despair.

Still, despite of the thriving community, Omni does not do much to actually implement the things people are asking for, such as tags. If you don't like tags, don't use them; now tags are what pulling many folks to Things. Sync services is another example. In any case, the premium prices work since the community is here and is able and willing to buy the next thing. There's an inertia which carries over to iPad right now. But the dominance of iPad creates a new reality. So what will happen is, once the core buyers here will complete their lineups, the prices will go down to compete with the all-new iPad crowd.

And my experience with the tight-fistedness over refunding or crediting or in any way acknowledging the fact that a long-paying customer deserves something for an app he bought which went free does not bode well for any refunds or credits when the price does go down. The fact that there're defenders of the high prices here, crying "hit me harder!" -- is admirable, we understand long-term service we get from Omni; yet a lot of it is this very community, and sync and tags still have to materialize! I am one of those folks who does pay every time, hoping for the better, and we do get the products. The question is, what the larger world of iPad will do.

The main value of Omni products is in fact this community. Omni will do better to accommodate it better, including coupons, features, etc.

curt.clifton

2010-08-18, 05:25 PM

I sincerely wish there were a way to ignore a thread in the forums, but there isn't and so I keep reading the new posts to this d%#med thing. I guess that's my problem.

My experience is that Omni does an incredible job of adding the features that I'd like to see added to their apps. That may be because I'm a software geek at heart and so am a kindred spirit to Ken and Tim and Rowan and Brian and Derek and the rest of the OG crew. I also recognize that there is a vocal minority that wants certain features and is disappointed when they aren't added. (Clones in OmniOutliner, anyone?) I feel their pain, but don't see a bit of evidence that Omni is ignoring its customers. In fact, I've never encountered a software company that is more customer-focused than Omni.

While the community around Omni products is a wonderful thing, I think there is something even more important in setting Omni apart. When you buy an Omni product, you're buying the best customer support in the business. I suppose even the best make an occasional mistake, but I've never dealt with a support organization that had as high a batting average as Omni's.

Finally, while there has been plenty of complaining on this thread, sales, app store reviews, and nearly every seriously review that I've seen say that Omni absolutely nailed the value proposition with OF iPad. It's too bad that it isn't the perfect app for everyone, but don't take the small number of people complaining here as evidence of a groundswell against Omni. Hell, even in this thread—a thread dedicated to price complaints—I suspect that if you count the number of unique posters pro and con, you'll find that the naysayers are a minority.

I hope I haven't offended anyone with my directness. I'm not one who has to have the last word, so I'll try to avoid that reply button on this thread.

braver

2010-08-18, 06:21 PM

Sure, we're all Omni fans, but criticizing or defending the pricing is not the main value of this thread. EndoftheQ raises some very important points. The fact that we are willing to buy is obvious; we made OF/iPad one of the highest grossing apps.

However, pricing strategy for iPad differs overall from what Omni does -- there's no question about it. Many of us are programmers at heart, and in mind, and by trade, too. Heck, there are some computer scientists, too. They don't understand why perspective-based iCal Sync Services are not supported yet, or tags, or such simple things as Sync Flagged to an iCal calendar (as opposed to a context).

What this thread doesn't need is a Soviet-style "yeah, charge my card again." We need to understand where we stand vis-a-vis value. I listed specific cases of features asked for years ago and not even entered into the system properly -- Sync Flagged -- and credits/upgrades not offered where warranted.

This is an Omni choice, but many customers in fact disagree. Instead of some general "but we approve," it would be useful to be very specific of what exactly you approve of, and what not. E.g. I have no need for phone support, and I don't want to pay for it. I'd rather pay whpalmer4. :)

Instead of forever asking for features like Sync Flagged with no use, I got the whole Things lineup and experiment with it for a long time. My chances of sticking with Omni depend on Omni's reactions. So do many others'. Instead of shutting them up or claiming a chorus of approval, it's very important that their voices are heard and understood properly. This thread is not about justifying a high price in a blanket manner; it's gauging the value existing buyers expect to get from what they bought into, and steering things accordingly.

As a programmer, I now clearly see value in an open-source equivalent of the best of breed OmniFocus/Things synthesis, with Spootnik/OPML/etc qualities. Then instead of asking, we could just do it.

hypotyposis

2010-08-19, 08:15 AM

Hi all,

I'm pretty much with Curt on all his points, but I'd like to add something.
Lots of people in this thread are discussing requested features whose evidence for "large support" we (users) only get anecdotically through the forums. One of the things I strongly respect about Omni is their use of email requests for tracking feature requests. I don't have access to their database of requests, and therefore I don't know whether there is actually a majority of people requesting, say, tags.
What I do know is that I'm one of those that are not particularly interested in tags. Are we a majority of users? I don't know. Would implementing tags in OF push me away form the app? I'm not sure (depends on the implementation), but it's quite possible. I'm sure OG is considering things like this in their decision-making.
They have been very upfront, however, in their communication on general features of the app and where they're headed. Again regarding tags, I think someone reposted something from Ken saying that they were never part of the original plan.
So this is not to start a flame war or anything, but just to remind folks that the (even numerous) postings on the forums for some feature requests might not actually accurately reflect the thoughts (possibly expressed by emails to Omni) of the larger user base.

And with that, I again second Curt's feature request for an ability to ignore forum threads!

Cheers

braver

2010-08-19, 01:51 PM

RiK

2010-08-19, 04:14 PM

What I do know is that I'm one of those that are not particularly interested in tags. Are we a majority of users? I don't know. Would implementing tags in OF push me away form the app? I'm not sure (depends on the implementation), but it's quite possible.

I'm not sure I really get your logic there... If Omni decided to add a feature such as metatags, which it seems quite a few people (myself included) would like to see, then why would the addition of such a feature "push you away" from OF?

I'm quite sure that they wouldn't be forcing you to use it any more than you are forced to use perspectives or flags in the existing version so from your perspective nothing would change so it comes across a little odd that you'd take such a negative stance about it.

whpalmer4

2010-08-19, 04:50 PM

I'm not sure I really get your logic there... If Omni decided to add a feature such as metatags, which it seems quite a few people (myself included) would like to see, then why would the addition of such a feature "push you away" from OF?

I'm quite sure that they wouldn't be forcing you to use it any more than you are forced to use perspectives or flags in the existing version so from your perspective nothing would change so it comes across a little odd that you'd take such a negative stance about it.

It seems unlikely to me that a tag feature could be put in without some changes to the existing UI if it is going to be well-integrated, agreed? Once you start changing the UI to accommodate the new functionality, whether you use it or not, there's potential to dislike the new additions. There's also the opportunity cost of all that work (not so great, perhaps, if done as part of an overall UI rewrite, but probably not insignificant if done as a standalone change). Perspectives and flags have always been present in released versions, so they don't make quite so compelling an example, in my opinion.

Personally, I'm not too worried that there's going to be a vast effort by the unwashed to stuff the Omni ballot box, or that Omni is going to start pandering to the masses if the expressed desires of the masses conflict with their vision of what they should be building. I don't see evidence that anyone there is just after a quick buck, or content with a quick hack. If they were, they'd still be milking OmniWeb, OmniDazzle, and OmniDiskSweeper, we would have seen OmniOutliner 4 with some sort of crude cloning hack long ago, and there'd be some unsatisfying tag field in OmniFocus already, possibly with some lame "realistic" graphics. One can disagree with individual decisions they make, certainly, but overall, I think they are trying to do right by us and build us a superior product usable both by newcomers and demanding power users.

tim

2010-08-20, 02:12 AM

I actually do think $40 is a little high, and would've loved to have seen some sort of discount for Desktop and iPhone owners. But whatever, they can price it however they want.

I love Omnifocus, but I'm waiting to see what the reviews are for this one, since if I'm going to spend $40, the app better be absolutely amazing.

I couldn't agree more. I bought the two (Mac and iPhone) because they worked well together but I find it really hard to keep buying software every time you have a new device.

I can accept there should be a cost as the extension to a new device isn't free but to invest in Omni Focus on all your devices gets quite expensive.

Tim

whpalmer4

2010-08-20, 06:59 AM

I couldn't agree more. I bought the two (Mac and iPhone) because they worked well together but I find it really hard to keep buying software every time you have a new device.

I can accept there should be a cost as the extension to a new device isn't free but to invest in Omni Focus on all your devices gets quite expensive.

Tim

OmniFocus costs less than the sales tax I have to pay when I buy a new Mac, iPod touch, or iPad.

What kind of discount did you receive from Apple for buying their hardware every time they roll out a new platform? Buying the new devices is the expensive part!

Do you think Omni would do better if they instead charged a flat fee that allowed one to use any combination of OmniFocus software (pretend the App Store policies don't interfere)? What would be a fair price? If you were a potential customer, would this be attractive?

Greg Jones

2010-08-20, 07:07 AM

I find it really hard to keep buying software every time you have a new device.

I find it really hard to keep buying a new device every time Omni releases new software! An iPad is next for me, then I suppose I'll need to finally upgrade from my PowerBook when OmniFocus goes Intel-only for version 2.0.

hypotyposis

2010-08-20, 01:04 PM

... I find it really hard to keep buying software every time you have a new device.
I can accept there should be a cost as the extension to a new device isn't free but to invest in Omni Focus on all your devices gets quite expensive.
Tim

Err... but you don't find it hard buying a new device every time there is... a new device? Or did I miss out on the Apple discount on iPads for current Mac users?

EDIT: Should have refreshed the page, seems like I'm very late on this one, sorry for the repeats!

hypotyposis

2010-08-20, 01:18 PM

My point is exactly that ochlocracy, the rule of the mob and mere majority, won't work here. When Alexis de Tocqueville visited the US Senate, which was not elected yet, but rather appointed in a semi-aristocratic manner, he admired such an arrangement, as upholding lofty thoughts and opposing the mob's instinct to level everything.

Hmmm... Is this at about the same place where he writes: "The time must come when the American republics will be obliged more frequently to introduce the plan of election by an elected body into their system of representation or run the risk of perishing miserably among the shoals of democracy"?
I guess I must have a very bad understanding of the current American electoral system, or maybe I missed out the miserable death of the U.S. somewhere along the line?

I submit that the honorable veterans of this forum are in a way the upholders of the lofty thoughts. If we allow Omni to go by the counts in the request database, we'll end up with a nauseatingly bland mashup of half-baked tricks for the naive and the impatient. There's apps galore for such an audience.
I absolutely agree with this appreciation of whpalmer and Curt. Which is why I agree with Curt's comment on this part of your post. But I shall also submit that whpalmer and Curt have not in my recollection expressed a desire to see tags integrated in OF. Are you ready to consider those lofty thoughts?

A very common request is, "dumb it down, it's too complex." Would you really like it implemented?

Well, I don't know (that was my previous point) that it's actually a "common" request (still no access to their requests database). From what I've seen in the forums and personal experience, it seems to me that "It's very complex, and not the best documented software" comes up pretty often. And although I think Omni could do a better job at documenting their software, there's usually massive resources (forums included) out there to help one with OF if one is willing to invest the time and energy to look for them.

The veterans, who over the years had paid repeatedly, deserve their votes counted in a higher tier. Multiply times by money by the number of meaningful discussions with whpalmer4, and make it a vote!
We shall agree to disagree. Obviously Omni has their own plans, and they adjust them in part according to feedback they get from users. I'm very happy with the way they run their company, which is neither a democracy nor a shop completely ignorant of its customers' needs and desires.

gopi

2010-08-20, 01:52 PM

I couldn't agree more. I bought the two (Mac and iPhone) because they worked well together but I find it really hard to keep buying software every time you have a new device.

I can accept there should be a cost as the extension to a new device isn't free but to invest in Omni Focus on all your devices gets quite expensive.

OmniFocus on the iPad is a lot more than just a little bit of size tweaks for the iPad. On a jailbroken iPad, you can make the iPhone OmniFocus look like it was ported - not doubled but actually full resolution. That just does not compare to the iPad version. Lots of work went in to it.

What really surprises me is the number of people asking for discounts if you own multiple platforms. I'd expect more than half of OmniFocus for iPhone or iPad sales to be to people who already own it on the Mac. You can't give a discount to 50 to 80% of your customers. I think the current prices are essentially the own multiple discounted prices.

jarcher

2010-08-26, 06:20 AM

I've generally been accepting of OmniGroup's pricing. I've always felt it was a bit too high but the product quality was worth it.

I know there are others who disagree but I think that the OmniFocus suite of applications is overpriced if you'd like all three versions (Mac, iPad and iPhone).

I've purchased two of the applications and have already spent nearly $100 on this application. Although it's a great application I feel like I'm paying 3 times for one application. It's a great application but it's still a task management application.

At the very least if you purchase the iPad version or iPhone version it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to get the other mobile version as well (which, a lot of other developers do already).

Just my 2 cents..

whpalmer4

2010-08-26, 06:32 AM

Your employer paid you for M-Th, doesn't it seem reasonable that they ought to get your services on Friday for free? You're pretty much doing the same job, right? :)

jarcher

2010-08-26, 06:43 AM

Your employer paid you for M-Th, doesn't it seem reasonable that they ought to get your services on Friday for free? You're pretty much doing the same job, right? :)

Kinda clever but not really. My employer determines my salary based on the fact I work 5 days a week (not M-Th). OmniGroup then should determine the application suite cost based on the presumption that people will buy all 3 applications.

ifonline

2010-08-26, 06:59 AM

You know what would make this thread more appropriate? A dead horse. Anyone got a dead horse we can use for a bit? Oh, and a club. We need a club as well. Anyone got a club?

jarcher

2010-08-26, 07:08 AM

Nuance matters, I think. The only other thread on a similar topic (at least that I could find) was related to the price of OmniFocus for the iPad.

My frustration is related to the cost associated with all three products.

Individually, I don't feel like any one of the products is priced inappropriately.

crut

2010-08-26, 07:39 AM

jarcher

2010-08-26, 07:41 AM

Then don't purchase all three products.

Well. I didn't. :-)

crut

2010-08-26, 07:48 AM

Well. I didn't. :-)

I do understand the frustration.

I deliberated for a week over purchasing the iPad version.

In the end I got it and it is my most used app because I have my iPad on my desk with OF in Forecast mode. It makes it easier to focus on what I should be doing by having the application there. The review projects is very good and much more obvious what to do with the iPad version.

I use the iPhone version to quickly jot down ideas on the go and the mac version to inject emails etc that require actions.

I would say that I am more productive as a result of the iPad version, but I guess that is dependant how its unique features help you.

gopi

2010-08-27, 11:50 AM

OmniGroup then should determine the application suite cost based on the presumption that people will buy all 3 applications.

I'm curious, what makes you think that they haven't?

I'm only guessing, but I'd expect that >3/4 of iPhone sales were to people owning it on the Mac. I'd expect the iPad numbers to be lower, but still well over half to existing owners.

endoftheQ

2010-08-29, 03:49 AM

I think what I've learnt so far, from other Member's opinions, is that what started out as a price issue, then evolved into value, has become for me, one of expectation.

Apple's App Store has changed my perception of software being a considered investment to it becoming a disposable commodity. I buy, on average, 2-3 Apps a day, of which 99.9% get junked. I view this buying pattern in the same way as my daily Starbucks and with the same commitment.

I know that fundi-GTD'ers will want me burnt at the stake for heresy, but in recent weeks I have been divorcing projects from OmniFocus into other Apps. My business GTD has gone to FileMaker Go, shopping and errands are now in HoneyDo, stuff to think about is in iThoughts, travel has gone to Travel Tracker and someday/maybe has moved over to iMandalArt. At first I thought I'd hate this, but I've realised I'm a natural for micro-GTD, where Apps that perform specific GTD tasks outstandingly well take precedent over trying to force them into one unified system. I've also discovered doing this means that I'm getting actions done much quicker, far more efficiently and, most importantly, I'm having fun doing them!

The App Store is slated to arrive soon on Apple TV and with the rumours that iOS will be combined into OSX in the release-after-next, appearing alongside touchscreen Macs & Cinema Displays, it'll be interesting to see if Omni can successfully buck the trend of 'price competitively, go for volume'.

ksrhee

2010-08-29, 05:17 AM

Cantenna

2010-08-29, 06:20 AM

endoftheQ

2010-08-29, 12:54 PM

Now I couldn't help but notice that if you add up all your program cost, it would come out to be close to $75 (if you go for traveltracker pro). Now last time I checked $40 is a lot cheaper than $75. . .

I agree wholeheartedly Ksrhee with your figures, but as previously mentioned, I don't believe that what I'm talking about is price.

Let me give you an example: if Amazon sold an App that allowed me to order online and have my goods delivered immediately by Star Trek transporter technology directly into my flat, I'd currently pay $1,000s to the developer of that piece of software for the convenience offered and be happy to do so.

As outlined in my previous post, I've moved my shopping and errands tasks to HoneyDo and that App has already saved me at least a thousand dollars for an outlay of less than five bucks and multiplied by ten the number of actions completed; or alternatively I could have simply left this category to languish alone within OmniFocus sans financial benefits!

For me, it's not price, maybe even now not value, but expectation.

abby0880

2010-08-31, 12:42 AM

I guess spending on something that you really want will be worth it. I am using this now and I am quite happy with what I got. It's not really milking loyalty but it is the worth of the quality product that you will have. pokie slots (http://www.pokiesslotmachines.com.au/)

endoftheQ

2010-08-31, 11:17 AM

You know what would make this thread more appropriate? A dead horse. Anyone got a dead horse we can use for a bit? Oh, and a club. We need a club as well. Anyone got a club?

ifonline, really appreciated the above post, I genuinely laughed out loud, as with whpalmer4's one analogising that OmniFocus is outdated, expensive to maintain, only for enthusiasts and is deliberately stuffed full of bugs to keep Members of this Board interested and engaged! :p

whpalmer4

2010-08-31, 11:37 AM

endoftheQ

2010-08-31, 12:20 PM

One of the secrets that is entrusted to one who reaches the 33rd degree in the OmniFocus mystical hierarchy is the "defaults write" incantation to turn the icon British Racing Green in the presence of another true believer — no secret handshakes for us! :)

mmhh... whpalmer4, GREEN, huh? OK, I'm sure next year you'll finally get that well-deserved Wizard of OF statuette, to go alongside the two Elphabas and the single Ruby Slipper which, let's admit, being c.1939, is not to be sniffed at... :eek:

Right, gotta go... broomstick's on fire, the flying monkey's are dive-bombing Toto and the Munchkins are revolting... [sigh...] no wonder I can't live without OmniFocus on my desktop. :)

ifonline

2010-08-31, 12:27 PM

ifonline, really appreciated the above post, I genuinely laughed out loud

You're welcome. Just doing my part to keep the conversation lively.

RiK

2010-09-05, 04:15 AM

It seems like the Omni Group missed the whole point of "impulse buying" as ssh put it.

Have you considered perhaps that OmniFocus is not marketed at the people who just impulse buy every app they see and then never actually use it, but maybe it's aimed for people who understand and value the benefits they will gain from it?

Pricing a "To-Do" app at prices over 10x the norm is sad...

OmniFocus is far more than a simple 'to-do' list. If you're not into GTD or serious about organising your workflow then I guess it's not for you and you'll be happy with one of the many cheap to-do lists but really, I don't think that insulting the guys at Omni on their own forums is going to take this anywhere good is it?

It's better to sell 100 apps at $12 (=$1200) then 10 apps at $40 (=$400)

Better by who's standard? Skoda may sell a million small cheap cars, but I'd still rather own the Mercedes. I don't see software any different. I'd rather pay the right price for a piece of quality engineering over some mass-produced tat churned out in a fortnight any day.

but they're probably losing more customers then they are gaining by pricing things sky high.

Sky high? Seriously? I value my time and OF has more than paid for itself, many many times over. It's one of my most used apps on all three platforms and is invaluable in my workflow. If you feel $40 is expensive *for you* then that's fine, but for those who actually use it in earnest it's incredibly good value for money.

I was in Paris last week and spent more than the cost of OF just on wine with a meal. Get some perspective eh?

Greg Jones

2010-09-05, 04:43 AM

take a queue from Apple's pricing of their iWorks app suite.

I can't believe I'm being sucked into this thread again, but the iWork pricing comes up often and it is at best a questionable comparison. First, it is very likely that Apple uses the iWork apps as a loss-leader to promote the iPad platform. Apple does after all give iTunes, etc. away for free to promote the music store, iPods, etc.

Secondly, realize that for the apps that Apple sells in the app store, Apple pockets 100% of the selling price. For the iWork suite, a $30 sale is $30 returned to Apple. For OmniFocus iPad, a $40 sale the Omni Group sees $28, Apple sees $12 from the sale. Is a $28 gross return to the developer really sky high pricing?

hypotyposis

2010-09-05, 07:26 AM

I can't believe I'm being sucked into this thread again Ditto...

So I suggest people who think OG's pricing is scandalous and not in line with anything else happening on the iTunes store head over to the medical apps.

Lexi-Comp is a $300 (/year) application.

DDS-GP is $399.99

iDia, an equine anatomy app is $349.99

etc., etc.

Maybe you should write to those companies to advise them to reduce their prices by some hundreds of dollars to benefit from the value of "impulse buys"?

gopi

2010-09-05, 03:43 PM

Would the impulse buy crowd be happy with OmniFocus? At $5, I suspect that many customers would be very, very unhappy and confused. OmniFocus is not a good impulse app. There would be lots of terrible reviews.

endoftheQ

2010-09-08, 03:22 AM

At the risk of alienating everyone, a few points I'd like to challenge!

Have you considered perhaps that OmniFocus is not marketed at the people who just impulse buy every app they see and then never actually use it, but maybe it's aimed for people who understand and value the benefits they will gain from it?

OmniFocus is far more than a simple 'to-do' list. If you're not into GTD or serious about organising your workflow then I guess it's not for you and you'll be happy with one of the many cheap to-do lists...

RiK, I'm sorry, but I don't feel that Omni is targeting OmniFocus at serious or fundi-GTD'ers, in fact GTD isn't even mentioned by Omni in their App Store blurb, but they do state (and I quote): 'Bring up a shopping list, agenda items to discuss at work, things to do at home, and any other lists you need.'

So I suggest people who think OG's pricing is scandalous and not in line with anything else happening on the iTunes store head over to the medical apps.

hypotyposis, the medical Apps you mention are never going to be for the casual user, they are specifically designed to fill a niche. If Omni is marketing OF as a task management App, then it easily falls into the impulse buy category.

When you buy an Omni product, you're buying the best customer support in the business. I suppose even the best make an occasional mistake, but I've never dealt with a support organization that had as high a batting average as Omni's.

OK, Curt, at the risk of encouraging you to bang your head against the wall, and making you feel bullied into hitting the 'reply' button, I have to say "really?". I accept that there is telephone support, something that must be hideously expensive to provide and not often found amongst App developers, but as I'm outside the US, it's neither inexpensive nor convenient. I've received equal, if not better, email customer support to Omni's from several 99¢ App developers, namely Atomic, GoodReader and WhatsApp.

Finally, while there has been plenty of complaining on this thread, sales, app store reviews, and nearly every seriously review that I've seen say that Omni absolutely nailed the value proposition with OF iPad.

Again, "really?", we must be reading different reviews! :rolleyes: Also, the last time I looked, OF for the iPhone was down to three-and-a-half stars on the UK App store. If it falls below three it is my understanding that future sales would be in serious jeopardy.

I also recognize that there is a vocal minority that wants certain features and is disappointed when they aren't added. (Clones in OmniOutliner, anyone?) I feel their pain, but don't see a bit of evidence that Omni is ignoring its customers.

Lots of people in this thread are discussing requested features whose evidence for "large support" we (users) only get anecdotically through the forums.

I completely appreciate that Omni is in no way obligated to include features that are requested by users, at the same time in my book that doesn't mean they are necessarily listening to their customers.

For example:

It looks like the top of the "we need this feature" list (linking to address book contacts in some fashion) has almost 70.

The original request for linking to contacts was started in 2007, although admittedly, all the other 69 votes may have come in last week, ditto tags, calendar view, etc. :rolleyes:

I guess my expectation is that if Omni pitches OF at the non-GTD'er and at a premium price, then those users have a right to expect OF to have the features as advertised, have a consistent GUI and icons across the board, isn't full of fundamental bugs that have to be voted on to fix, and that it doesn't rely on a generous Member of this Board to create up-to-date user documentation (take a bow, jonwhite), etc. etc.

IMHO, Omni should stop development of any new features (such as DI which I've clamored for!) until the above basics are sorted and it should then market OmniFocus for what it is, a niche GTD program, not as a to-do list where, at such premium pricing, it seems to end up being an expensive disappointment to non-fundi-GTD'ers.

witz

2010-09-08, 09:09 AM

I just recently ported my brain into omnifocus with all three versions. That put me back $130 dollars, which isn't chump change, but it isn't outrageous compared to other desktop software. Each has it's use for me, and toghether OmniFocus has really made a huge imprivement in my productivity. It has definitely paid for itself in less than two months. One of the best software expenditures I've ever made.

OF is why I bought an iPhone. I had an ipad, and tried all the GTD stuff, but the news of the coming OFiPad app lead me to try the desktop demo. Once I saw how well this all worked, it dawned on me that it wouldn't work forme unless I had it in my pocket, so I finally got an iPhone. It's more important to me than the phone at this point.

RiK

2010-09-08, 09:16 AM

I think it's fair to say that OmniFocus has paid for itself many, many times over. I wouldn't be exagerating to say that the improvement to my workflow (not least proper reviews and the ability to plan my day over my breakfast!) since adding the iPad version means it's saved me more every day of the week than the app cost just once..

For the people who think it's too expensive I can only way (with a big friendly :D) - quit yer whining, you don't need it. Stick to a simple 99c to-do list and then everyone's happy aren't they!

endoftheQ

2010-09-08, 11:30 AM

OF is why I bought an iPhone. I had an ipad, and tried all the GTD stuff, but the news of the coming OFiPad app lead me to try the desktop demo. Once I saw how well this all worked, it dawned on me that it wouldn't work forme unless I had it in my pocket, so I finally got an iPhone. It's more important to me than the phone at this point.

The same here Witz, I didn't really want another iPhone but at the time OmniFocus in my pocket was more important than my resentment at Apple's stranglehold on my wallet.

For the people who think it's too expensive I can only way (with a big friendly :D) - quit yer whining, you don't need it. Stick to a simple 99c to-do list and then everyone's happy aren't they!

OK, RiK, maybe for you it's "whining" but, playing devil's advocate, then perhaps Omni shouldn't position the product as a to-do-list on the App store?

I'm a happy user of OF on the desktop, less so on iDevices. I've already paid for and deleted OG and OGS from my iPad and I doubt I'll put them back unless some compelling new feature is introduced (OmniGroup Format?:)).

I believe that until Apple permits a paid App upgrade path (so that Omni can generate a revenue stream from its existing client base), then even the most evangelistic and dedicated fanboys of all things Omni need new users and for them to be happy new users.

I have a developer pal who has two paid Apps that have consistently remained in the UK general top 50 since their launch several years ago. He tells me that once your App drops to 2 stars it's game over.

I want Omni to succeed and remain willing to improve and innovate OmniFocus and for me that means I shouldn't shy away from trying to appreciate and, if I can, address other users understandably sometimes negative opinions, whether or not I agree with them. If I do agree with them, being a paid up Member, I feel free to say so. Sorry RiK, but IMHO I don't think telling them they're "whining" or "stick to a simple 99c to-do list" helps them (except to perhaps post negative App Store reviews), Omni or over the long term, us.

gopi

2010-09-08, 02:09 PM

If Omni is marketing OF as a task management App, then it easily falls into the impulse buy category.

Interesting. I used OmniFocus on the desktop before iOS existed, so I am not great at evaluating the marketing text. You make, I think, a good point that the app's marketing makes it sound more like an impulse buy than it is - at any price it's too complex for that IMHO.

I've received equal, if not better, email customer support to Omni's from several 99¢ App developers, namely Atomic, GoodReader and WhatsApp.

Do you think that a significant percentage of buyers of those apps ask for support? Do you think that, short of a full personal assistant AI, that an app doing what OmniFocus does will not get a high enough percentage of users asking for support that a £0.79 price point just can't work?

Again, "really?", we must be reading different reviews! :rolleyes: Also, the last time I looked, OF for the iPhone was down to three-and-a-half stars on the UK App store. If it falls below three it is my understanding that future sales would be in serious jeopardy.

In the US it's at 4.5 and virtually all of the poor reviews are either incoherent or factually incorrect. I think there was only one where I felt like there was a coherent and valid point.

I guess my expectation is that if Omni pitches OF at the non-GTD'er and at a premium price, then those users have a right to expect OF to have the features as advertised,

I don't want them to change the app to appeal to people who aren't looking for serious GTD-esque features. I want them to clarify the marketing materials.

have a consistent GUI and icons across the board, isn't full of fundamental bugs that have to be voted on to fix,

I'm not noticing any bugs in my day to day usage.

I really do think that the two issues need to be separated. What OmniGroup says the app is, and what it is. I am happy with what it tries to do, but I do see people could be confused. Fix the confusion, don't rewrite it as a different app.

hypotyposis

2010-09-08, 05:13 PM

hypotyposis, the medical Apps you mention are never going to be for the casual user, they are specifically designed to fill a niche. If Omni is marketing OF as a task management App, then it easily falls into the impulse buy category.
[...]
IMHO, Omni should stop development of any new features (such as DI which I've clamored for!) until the above basics are sorted and it should then market OmniFocus for what it is, a niche GTD program, not as a to-do list where, at such premium pricing, it seems to end up being an expensive disappointment to non-fundi-GTD'ers.

endoftheQ, I'm not sure I follow you here:

a) OF iPad (I can't remember what was said earlier in the thread and I'm too lazy to look at the previous pages, so I'll assume it is indeed OF iPad that is the subject, since we're in the OF iPad forum) is described on the (US) App Store as: "combin[ing] the in-depth task management functionality of a desktop app with the advanced mobile experience of the iPad."
To me, task manager is ceratinly not = to to-do list app. Which leads me to

b) I don't see how a task management app in the sense that it is not a simple to-do list app is an "impulse buy." I honestly don't know where the management philosophies are at in Britain those days (and I wasn't interested in them when I lived there, so it's not like I ever knew), but it seems to me that the 'cult of GTD' and others Franklin Covey etc. have become so prevalent in the US that it really wouldn't be unreasonable to expect your average US iPhone user to be at least vaguely aware of the distinction between a simple to-do list and a more extensive task manager. Maybe that's just babble though.

Now just to not miss an occasion to contradict you ;) , I believe the monetary threshold for "impulse buy" for medical folks is much higher... and what's that about calling us a niche anyway!?

endoftheQ

2010-09-09, 03:13 AM

so I'll assume it is indeed OF iPad that is the subject, since we're in the OF iPad forum

Apologies hypotyposis, my previous posts relate to either OmniFocus on the iPhone or on the iPad (or both!). I accept it would be more relevant and specific if I'd opened a separate thread on the OF iPhone Board but having already received threats from Members of this Board to hack-and-erase my hard-drive and being unable to afford further armed security, I've refrained from pushing my luck!

I don't see how a task management app in the sense that it is not a simple to-do list app is an "impulse buy." I honestly don't know where the management philosophies are at in Britain those days (and I wasn't interested in them when I lived there, so it's not like I ever knew), but it seems to me that the 'cult of GTD' and others Franklin Covey etc. have become so prevalent in the US that it really wouldn't be unreasonable to expect your average US iPhone user to be at least vaguely aware of the distinction between a simple to-do list and a more extensive task manager. Maybe that's just babble though.

OK, I've attached a several screenshots from the UK App Store. I'd be interested in your honest opinion, if you were a newbie with no experience of OF, which one would you gamble on as the GTD App and which one is for simple errands, tasks, shopping lists, etc. and not for fundi-GTD?

Now just to not miss an occasion to contradict you ;) , I believe the monetary threshold for "impulse buy" for medical folks is much higher... and what's that about calling us a niche anyway!?

You medical students live in an alcohol-induced, drug-obliterated, sex-obsessed haze. App developers rely on this fact when charging $300 a hit as they know most of you will so unfocused (GTD or no-GTD) as to believe there's a decimal point after the '3'.

Or have things changed so much since I was at Uni? :p

Eustace Tilley

2010-09-09, 03:39 AM

A distinct revenue stream for each product provides a clear signal to the producer of how the market values each product.

endoftheQ

2010-09-09, 04:12 AM

Interesting. I used OmniFocus on the desktop before iOS existed, so I am not great at evaluating the marketing text. You make, I think, a good point that the app's marketing makes it sound more like an impulse buy than it is - at any price it's too complex for that IMHO.

gopi, I'll put my hands up, same here, like you I hadn't read the App Store blurb, I just 'purchased' because I was a long-time user of the desktop program. It wasn't until a colleague complained about it being 'misleading', that I actually went back and read Omni's sales pitch!

Do you think that a significant percentage of buyers of those apps ask for support? Do you think that, short of a full personal assistant AI, that an app doing what OmniFocus does will not get a high enough percentage of users asking for support that a £0.79 price point just can't work?

You make an excellent point. No, I hadn't thought about it in that context. You're right, I imagine that most users can find their own way around Atomic's web browser, despite it's ability to be heavily customised. However, I would say, and contradict me if you're not in agreement, that something as complex as OF should be released with an up-to-date user manual. I think it's shoddy that newbies should first have to find and then search this board for a PDF user guide (which was prepared by a Member) because (and I quote):

Sorry about that! Documentation update is on our radar screen; just didn't want to hold the iPhone/iOS 4 release until after we completed the docs for OmniFocus for iPad.

So... many... projects... at... same... time! :-)

In the US it's at 4.5 and virtually all of the poor reviews are either incoherent or factually incorrect. I think there was only one where I felt like there was a coherent and valid point.

Good to know. However, in the UK, it's currently 3.5 for the iPhone and a borderline 4 for the iPad (see attached pic). I agree that it's difficult to often grasp what the negative reviews are about, which is why I believe it's better that any grievances are posted on this Board where the more considerate Members can ask questions, try to understand and then help out, rather than the sometimes (IMHO) dismissive responses of 'go away, just ask for a refund' that new users receive.

I don't want them to change the app to appeal to people who aren't looking for serious GTD-esque features. I want them to clarify the marketing materials.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I didn't intend to suggest Omni should change the App. I was, admittedly, applying this to my own experience, where OF for iPhone was missing the 'pick photo' feature, as advertised on the App Store, and which took over a year to get sorted.

I'm not noticing any bugs in my day to day usage.

I noticed fundamental bugs, at initial launch, such as having to go into landscape mode before being able to move items, no search within notes, etc.

Thanks gopi, I appreciate your taking the time out to respond.

kimaira

2010-09-09, 06:34 AM

hello
Im looking here to learn re: cost/benefits before I buy. I have an iPad no iMac or iPhone. Im at college and like to get some organization re: coursework.
Thanx Kim.

RiK

2010-09-09, 08:07 AM

gopi, I'll put my hands up, same here, like you I hadn't read the App Store blurb, I just 'purchased' because I was a long-time user of the desktop program. It wasn't until a colleague complained about it being 'misleading', that I actually went back and read Omni's sales pitch!

I must admit, I'm in the same group. I've been using OmniFocus on the desktop and my iPhone since day one on each (including the initial pre-release version on the mac) and so the moment it became available I just clicked on buy. It's only this thread that's made me finally go and read the description, which currently reads as below:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9486700/OF-iTunes.gif

Which seems pretty reasonable and certainly doesn't read like a 'casual' app to me..

RiK

2010-09-09, 08:13 AM

On the UK store it's currently at 4 stars for the current ver, 4.5 overall.

endoftheQ

2010-09-09, 11:16 AM

hypotyposis

2010-09-09, 11:49 AM

Oh... for the love of G... !

Let me nail my colours to the mast. I believe that for followers of David Allen's Getting Things Done® (GTD®) philosophy there is no better program suite than Omni Group's OmniFocus. OK?

I used OmniFocus for iPhone as the example in the previous attachments. I've now done the same thing in this post using OF for iPad.

So RiK, pretend you didn't know about OmniFocus and were relying on the information provided by the developers, which one is the GTD App?

enoftheQ, I'll agree that the UK pitch is not as clear as the US one.

Re: which is the one that looks like the true GTD one at a glance: MyLists looks like it can be used for the traditional "flat lists" GTD (list of projects separated from list of actions), but I see nothing regarding contexts *fail*
ToDo Pro - GTD: not only no contexts, but sorting is by priority and due dates–obviously "anti-GTD". *fail*
Firetask: "classical approach based on priorities and due dates with DA's GTD"–I think the whole point of GTD revolves around not mixing those things *fail*
PocketInformant: only viable one in terms of GTD as far as I'm concerned.

Now of course the fact that there is a DACo White paper on OF might hint as to which solution might be more viable GTD-wise, but part of the beauty of GTD is that it's tool-agnostic...

gopi

2010-09-09, 12:17 PM

RiK: I agree with you. Nobody should read through that text and expect the app to not require some careful thought to fully utilize.

Also, IMHO, OF is actually a fine app for just keeping lists and syncing them everywhere. Only caveat for that is that it takes too many keystrokes. CarbonFin Outliner lets you type an item, press return, type another. Because OF expects you to likely want to enter more metadata, it has a dialog for this.

endoftheQ

2010-09-09, 12:22 PM

enoftheQ, I'll agree that the UK pitch is not as clear as the US one.

Re: which is the one that looks like the true GTD one at a glance: MyLists looks like it can be used for the traditional "flat lists" GTD (list of projects separated from list of actions), but I see nothing regarding contexts *fail*
ToDo Pro - GTD: not only no contexts, but sorting is by priority and due dates–obviously "anti-GTD". *fail*
Firetask: "classical approach based on priorities and due dates with DA's GTD"–I think the whole point of GTD revolves around not mixing those things *fail*
PocketInformant: only viable one in terms of GTD as far as I'm concerned.

Now of course the fact that there is a DACo White paper on OF might hint as to which solution might be more viable GTD-wise, but part of the beauty of GTD is that it's tool-agnostic...

hypotyposis, you might be surprised that I agree (as far as my limited GTD intellect allows!) with everything you say.

I guess my point is, put yourself in a newbie's shoes, you've only read DA's book (which I recall didn't mention computers at all, but was solely paper-based) and then went shopping on the App store, which App would you buy, the one which mentions GTD or the one that doesn't?

OK, now you're newbie in the market for a to-do list App. You see OmniFocus (for iPhone) on the UK App Store and read: 'Bring up a shopping list, agenda items to discuss at work, things to do at home, and any other lists you need.' Sounds good huh?

Put your hand-on-your-heart, hypotyposis, would you honestly recommend OmniFocus as a great shopping list App? I wouldn't.

whpalmer4

2010-09-09, 12:57 PM

Put your hand-on-your-heart, hypotyposis, would you honestly recommend OmniFocus as a great shopping list App? I wouldn't.
If I can butt in here, I would say it is a fine shopping list App if you already own it. I wouldn't recommend its purchase solely as a shopping list app, as it is clearly overkill for that purpose (and dedicated shopping apps may well have some handy features for that purpose that it does not). It was the first iPhone app I purchased, and with it in hand, I have never felt the need to investigate what other options might be available if I would plunk down more money for a dedicated shopping list app. Also, I don't see the benefit in having interdependent tasks in multiple apps when the one I've got will do it all in a satisfactory manner. As always, YMMV.

gopi

2010-09-09, 01:14 PM

Put your hand-on-your-heart, hypotyposis, would you honestly recommend OmniFocus as a great shopping list App? I wouldn't.

As an app to only do that and nothing else? No.

I don't think the marketing text suggests you will buy OF and use it only for that feature. The text makes it clear that is one feature among many, which is accurate and reasonable IMHO.

RiK

2010-09-09, 02:11 PM

Let me nail my colours to the mast. I believe that for followers of David Allen's Getting Things Done® (GTD®) philosophy there is no better program suite than Omni Group's OmniFocus. OK?

I used OmniFocus for iPhone as the example in the previous attachments. I've now done the same thing in this post using OF for iPad.

So RiK, pretend you didn't know about OmniFocus and were relying on the information provided by the developers, which one is the GTD App?

Eh? I'm not sure I get your point *at all*.

All my posts here have been in in support of OF, I personally believe it's worth the asking price many times over.

My point here was to illustrate that the description clearly indicates that OF is a complex task management application and I can't see how a casual user could 'accidentally' purchase it without understanding what it was for. Surely anyone purchasing one of the higher priced apps on the store would do a little research first to see if it's what they want? There's a link directly to the Omni website right there on the store so I can't see any excuse for not doing your homework before purchasing.

endoftheQ

2010-09-09, 03:40 PM

My point here was to illustrate that the description clearly indicates that OF is a complex task management application and I can't see how a casual user could 'accidentally' purchase it without understanding what it was for.

So RiK, Omni's opening paragraph on the App Store that states: 'Bring up a shopping list, agenda items to discuss at work, things to do at home, and any other lists you need.' helps a newbie to conclude that this is, and I quote your words, 'a complex task management application'?

If I look at rival Apps features, from a non-GTD point of view, I'd think they were also feature-rich and complex.

There's a link directly to the Omni website right there on the store so I can't see any excuse for not doing your homework before purchasing.

Absolutely! Caveat Emptor!! Although I'm not sure how that helps... :confused:

RiK

2010-09-09, 05:02 PM

So RiK, Omni's opening paragraph on the App Store that states: 'Bring up a shopping list, agenda items to discuss at work, things to do at home, and any other lists you need.' helps a newbie to conclude that this is, and I quote your words, 'a complex task management application'?

Well I have no idea what you're looking at, but the wording I'm reading, as shown in the screen grab previously (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=85224&postcount=188) reads:
"OmniFocus for iPad combines an in-depth task management functionality of a desktop app with the advanced mobile experience of the iPad. With flexible viewing options, location-aware task lists, and on-the-fly task entry with voice notes and image attachments, OmniFocus for iPad is the trusted system you need for managing everything in your busy life.

Use OmniFocus for iPad on its own, or sync with omniFocus for Mac and OmniFocus for iPhone. New to OmniFocus for iPad are task forecasting views, a streamlined built-in review mode, and a simplified Map feature for creating and viewing tasks based on current or assigned locations." etc.

It's all there in the screenshot I posted from the App Store dude so I'm finding it hard to see why you seem to be taking it out on me personally..

RiK

2010-09-10, 03:19 AM

endoftheQ

2010-09-10, 03:36 AM

Sorry RiK, rude of me, sincere apologies. :o

I think we were discussing different versions (my fault). In an earlier post, I mentioned that I was also talking about OF for iPhone in this thread. It's that page on the App Store that has the 'Bring up a shopping list, agenda items to discuss at work, things to do at home, and any other lists you need.' line (see attached screenshot), again sorry for causing any confusion.

Apologies hypotyposis, my previous posts relate to either OmniFocus on the iPhone or on the iPad (or both!). I accept it would be more relevant and specific if I'd opened a separate thread on the OF iPhone Board but having already received threats from Members of this Board to hack-and-erase my hard-drive and being unable to afford further armed security, I've refrained from pushing my luck!

I got interested in this when someone asked me the price of OF iPhone so I went on to iTunes to look. I was surprised to see that OF iPhone only had 3.5 stars (for the current version) and two 1 star reviews in the last few days.

I questioned a colleague (whose a fundi-GTD'er) about it and his response was along the lines of "it's their marketing blurb, it's misleading" at which point, for the first time ever, I read it. I then went over to OF iPad to look at that too. I was genuinely surprised that neither make any mention of GTD.

This, for me, explained much, including such instances as SmallTownBoy's anger at feeling 'ripped off' (see this link (http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=16596)) re: OF.

I completely accept that anyone making a purchase outside their price comfort zone should do their research, although I have to admit I don't, even when I've bought an App costing in excess of $100, I just check the App Store reviews! Naive, I know! :)

RiK

2010-09-10, 09:02 AM

I completely accept that anyone making a purchase outside their price comfort zone should do their research, although I have to admit I don't, even when I've bought an App costing in excess of $100, I just check the App Store reviews! Naive, I know! :)

Ha ha, tell me about it. I did that with Adobe Creative Suite :D

Deedubau

2010-09-15, 08:55 PM

This was definitely a pricey app compared to the other iPad todo apps but it was also completely worth the money for me. Before I had a Mac I purchased a few iPad todo apps from 5-10 dollars to me and I was always annoyed at how lackluster those apps were with the GTD implementation or the buggy software.

With Omnifocus everything just feels perfect with their GTD implementation and the iPad app offers the best UI out of all the Omnifocus products. As long as the company doesn't release Omnifocus 2.0 as a new app for the iPad to make more money then I'm 100 percent happy with my purchase.

gcgiv

2010-09-17, 10:34 AM

As long as the company doesn't release Omnifocus 2.0 as a new app for the iPad to make more money then I'm 100 percent happy with my purchase.

This is a huge point that people need to consider and has kept me from 'buying' into Omni for my GTD needs. If you look at the history of upgrades on their other mature products (OmniOutliner & OmniGraffle), it was a fairly expensive journey. My hunch is that come v2,v3,etc. You'll be repurchasing the OmniFocus apps at a pretty steep upgrade price. And if the app store doesn't have a 'discount' feature by then, you'll probably be paying the same price that a new adopter would pay for the iPad & iPhone versions.

Ken Case

2010-09-17, 11:03 AM

Deedubau

2010-09-17, 11:43 AM

I guess it's understandable to make Omnifocus a sustainable long term business model even though most people who purchase from the app store won't buy into this model (especially given the price). But I really do like the Omnifocus apps and would probably buy new versions for a heavily discounted launch price. Unless it's really cheap I probably won't pay for the syncing though (assuming it costs money) since it looks like all major updates will cost extra.

endoftheQ

2010-09-17, 11:58 AM

If you compare our upgrade pricing with most of the software industry (e.g. Apple, Adobe, Microsoft, Parallels), I think you'll find that we try very hard to give our customers a lot of value for each release (with free major updates for several years) and to then give our customers a great discount on the next release (offering a discount of up to two-thirds of your previous purchase price).

Unfortunately, as you point out, we don't have any way to offer upgrade discounts on the App Store at this time. So, instead, we've been just releasing all of our updates for free. (We probably can't continue to do that forever, but we started lobbying Apple to add upgrade pricing to the App Store before the App Store even opened.)

Ken,

I really appreciate you posting this. I was going to raise it on this Board but didn't as I felt that it wasn't really an 'Omni' topic, even for the Lounge!

Its hard to believe that any end-user would expect software developers to update their Apps year-after-year without being able to generate some form of an upgrade revenue stream. The ability is definitely there in the App Store and it is worrying that after several years Apple has shown no sign of being willing to bring it online.

From my recollection, Apple has provided upgrades on it's devolved software (Claris, FileMaker, etc.) but its own brands (correct me if I'm wrong!) are always a re-purchase, ie. OSX, iLife, iWorks, etc.

I truly hope they aren't so far off-planet that they believe that the re-purchase model can be applied to the App Store ad-infinitum. :eek:

gopi

2010-09-17, 12:38 PM

From my recollection, Apple has provided upgrades on it's devolved software (Claris, FileMaker, etc.) but its own brands (correct me if I'm wrong!) are always a re-purchase, ie. OSX, iLife, iWorks, etc.

OS X is arguably always an upgrade - you can not buy an OS X initial license except with the purchase of a new Mac.

Final Cut Pro and Aperture have upgrade pricing. I think only their inexpensive software doesn't have upgrade pricing.

I absolutely despise the lack of upgrade pricing on the App Store. I've seen too many nifty apps just drop away. I feel like the authors would keep updating if there was a clearly defined incentive.

For that matter, how do you do a new version launch? Traditionally, there is a "anybody who bought it in the last ~month gets the new one", or similar deal. So, OmniFocus v5 is ready...do they just ship it one day, and everybody who bought it yesterday is hosed? Do they stop selling it altogether for a month? If they stop selling the old version a month before the new one, there will be an immense amount of publicity right away, which isn't really what you want.

The App Store is very successful. Convincing Apple that this policy is a problem will be tough.

I don't know what the hosting cost for WebDAV works out to, but I suspect a high percentage of OF users would pay for hosting, which would give Omni some ongoing revenue. Conversely, though, I suspect that a high percentage of OF users do have MobileMe, which is the only trivial to configure sync system, so that would argue against a high percentage paying Omni.

I wish you guys the best of luck; Apple's iOS App Store is really not structured in a way that makes your life easy.

intranation

2010-09-20, 04:57 AM

I just got an iPad at the weekend, and the first app I bought was OmniFocus. I figure at $500 a pop for the iPad, $40 for the best task management software on said device isn't really much of a stretch. It's all about perspective really (and FWIW, I'm very happy with both purchases). That said I have already bought OF desktop and OF iPhone, so I was going to get it regardless.

endoftheQ

2010-09-21, 09:58 AM

If I can butt in here, I would say it is a fine shopping list App if you already own it. I wouldn't recommend its purchase solely as a shopping list app, as it is clearly overkill for that purpose (and dedicated shopping apps may well have some handy features for that purpose that it does not).

It was the first iPhone app I purchased, and with it in hand, I have never felt the need to investigate what other options might be available if I would plunk down more money for a dedicated shopping list app. Also, I don't see the benefit in having interdependent tasks in multiple apps when the one I've got will do it all in a satisfactory manner. As always, YMMV.

I too felt the same way, whpalmer4, it was only when I was forced into splitting business and personal GTD into separate Apps that I also considered other options for some of my project categories.

Whilst I still keep a lot of 'shopping' or 'errand' actions within OmniFocus, especially if they are associated with projects, ie. 'rebuild house' (last time I let the kin have an unsupervised party!) the single ones such as 'buy milk' or 'clean car' I've found work better for me in a multi-user App, in my case HoneyDo (or BeeShi* as my kids call it).

The ability to share tasks with individuals or multiple groups (currently, in my case: family, friends, neighbours, rugby, horticultural) works brilliantly for me, often saving large quantities of dosh (getting loans or freebies of CDs, DVDs, books, powertools, cuttings, etc.) and getting more actions done as other people pick them up.

Likewise, my 'Someday/Maybe' category gets far more attention in iMandalArt than it would if I left it to languish in OF.

I admit that doing this is not without its downside. I've moved travel over to TravelChecker but still have to put placeholders within OmniFocus, FileMaker Go and iCal. The benefits for me (e-tickets, live departure boards, gate numbers, expenses, etc.) outweigh these negatives, but as you rightly said, YMMV.

If you have friends and family with iPhones/iPads, then I think HoneyDo is a worth a look for single 'shopping' and 'errand' actions. I wouldn't want Omni to include these features in OF, I consider it a horse of a different colour. HoneyDo is currently on sale for 59p (99¢) so checking it out, even just for fun, won't exactly break the bank!

Brian

2010-09-22, 09:09 AM

Unless it's really cheap I probably won't pay for the syncing though (assuming it costs money)

We're not going to charge for the features that are currently there. We may add more stuff in the future and charge for that at some point, but one of the things we've learned is that the cost to run the server is low enough that we can give access away.

whpalmer4

2010-09-22, 09:21 AM

ksrhee

2010-09-22, 10:38 AM

We're not going to charge for the features that are currently there. We may add more stuff in the future and charge for that at some point, but one of the things we've learned is that the cost to run the server is low enough that we can give access away.

That's excellent news!

I will be willing to pay for extra service (e.g., forwarding email to server for new entry, etc. etc.) though.

Deedubau

2010-09-23, 07:23 PM

We're not going to charge for the features that are currently there. We may add more stuff in the future and charge for that at some point, but one of the things we've learned is that the cost to run the server is low enough that we can give access away.

Yay! I don't really have any use for Mobileme (happy with Google's free services) and the native OTA syncing sounds great.

Deedubau

2010-09-28, 12:25 AM

I didn't want to make a new topic for this but it looks like you got some new competition from another todo app in the app store and the web. I won't say who it is but it looks like they are charging for a yearly web service access and syncing vs upgrades. I still really like Omnifocus though but as long as you guys come out with constant upgrades (and reasonable software upgrade prices) I'll continue being a user :)

Boneman

2010-10-03, 10:03 AM

Omnifocus has bought itself several times over for me since I bought it. Appigo Todo was good but to me it doesn't compare.

I'd have paid twice what they charged.

glennonrp

2010-10-04, 06:48 PM

I, initially, paused when I saw the price tag. I'd used OF on my PowerBook for a while but I found that I didn't use it enough because it wasn't really portable. I started using a Moleskine instead because at least that was with me when I thought of stuff that needed doing.

When I got my iPod Touch I got Toodledoo and was happy to have a digital to do list again and be able to use contexts. When I got my iPad I was using it scaled up until they made it Universal. I checked for OF all the time. I got Todo and really liked it. So much better than Toodledoo!! Then, when OF came out, I was bummed to see it was so "expensive." I wondered if I would really get so much more out of it to justify the cost.

Yesterday I downloaded OF and started using it today. I work as a high school Activities Director. At any given time I have at least four projects in various stages of production. I have to constantly look forward to next month, next year. The projects have lots of details and are time sensitive. I have an awful memory, to boot, and am easily distracted.

To me, the ability to use OF the way I want, to nest projects within folders, to reorder projects at will, that alone has freed me up to think less about what I need to get done anfpd more about what i'm doing. But, I have a feeling that the Forecast and Review are only going to push me further.

What sold me was the 30 day money back guarantee. However, I have a feeling that I won't be exercising that option. I think I would have missed Todo already but I didn't. Not at all. I have a feeling that my use of OF will be come more automatic as time goes on.

Is OF expensive? No. Forty bucks is just not that much money. Compared to a game that I play for half an hour? Maybe. I think the app store makes it look like all apps should be $5 or less. I admit, i'll even occassionally agonize over a game that is $2.99 until I realize that's less that a couple coffee's at St*arbucks.

I don't make more money based on how well I do my job, per se. But, it's a stressful job and if OF makes me better and happier, then I guess that's worth $40. OF is really great if you have multiple projects with varied actions required. If you can make due with a simpler todo list then you should do so.

endoftheQ

2010-10-05, 03:55 AM

Final Cut Pro and Aperture have upgrade pricing. I think only their inexpensive software doesn't have upgrade pricing.

Thanks gopi, I'd forgotten about those. :o

I guess my expectation is still for upgrade pricing regardless of initial cost, I think less of Apple for requiring purchasers of iLife to fork out the full amount each time, even simple utilities that I've bought for a few bucks via Kagi have always offered a discount for owners of previous versions.

I absolutely despise the lack of upgrade pricing on the App Store. I've seen too many nifty apps just drop away. I feel like the authors would keep updating if there was a clearly defined incentive.

I too find it incomprehensible that Apple hasn't offered upgrade pricing on the App Store, especially as it is obvious that they already have the facility to do so.

None of the workarounds that other developers are using, such as feature unlocking via In App Purchase or subscriptions seem really applicable to OmniFocus. I guess one way would be for Omni to offer a promo code for a free download to everyone who emails in an iTunes receipt for OF purchased in the previous 90 days that fell prior to the release of a new full version.

The committed GTD's probably won't complain about having to repurchase as most appear to feel that OF recoups any cost after saving them a few hours.

Those customers that bought it as a task manager (iPad) or a (shopping) list app (iPhone) would I guess be pretty disgruntled at having to rebuy.

Mr. Job's "price competitively, go for volume" is beginning to sound less like advice and more like a threat!

emory

2010-10-05, 03:17 PM

I guess my expectation is still for upgrade pricing regardless of initial cost, I think less of Apple for requiring purchasers of iLife to fork out the full amount each time, even simple utilities that I've bought for a few bucks via Kagi have always offered a discount for owners of previous versions.

iLife is only USD$80 and Final Cut Pro is USD$1000. There is arguably the same development cost spent on both products each quarter.

If you want to pay $1000 for iLife so that you only have to pay $500 next year when iLife 'nn is released, I think you should email that suggestion to Steve Jobs right away.

Those customers that bought it as a task manager (iPad) or a (shopping) list app (iPhone) would I guess be pretty disgruntled at having to rebuy.

Ths ppl r nt nl dts, bt thy r ls a cmpltly ncnsqntl sbst f "cstmrs" nd "srs".

Brian

2010-10-05, 10:28 PM

Reminder: please don't engage in ad hominem attacks on our forums.

endoftheQ

2010-10-05, 11:48 PM

iLife is only USD$80 and Final Cut Pro is USD$1000. There is arguably the same development cost spent on both products each quarter.

If you want to pay $1000 for iLife so that you only have to pay $500 next year when iLife 'nn is released, I think you should email that suggestion to Steve Jobs right away.

Hi Emory,

Omni offers upgrade pricing, at less than 50% of the original purchase, for OmniOutliner (only $39.95, upgrade $19.95) and OmniGraffle (only $99.95, upgrade $39.95). Do you expect this not to be the case for OmniFocus? Apologies if I've misunderstood your point!

Ths ppl r nt nl dts, bt thy r ls a cmpltly ncnsqntl sbst f "cstmrs" nd "srs".

Fortunately I read this before it got disemvoweled otherwise I'd have been well :confused: !

I'd agree, except that Omni obviously does target such 'customers' and 'users' in the UK App Store at least. As I pointed out in a previous post, there's no mention of GTD anywhere in Omni's App Store blurb but plenty about task management and lists including the shopping kind!

Have a look at the attached.

emory

2010-10-06, 08:29 AM

It wasn't and isn't ad hominem to point out the stupidity of other people in general. It would be ad hominem if I said "So-and-so is an idiot".[1]

To return to the discussion however: the people that paid anything more than nothing for a "shopping list app" aren't the customer base I think OmniGroup is marketing to, and if they're unhappy because their Grocery List App gets an update a week after they bought it, I don't think they'd care. And if they do care, they are paid off in the form of a full refund by OmniGroup (I've seen at least two instances where an idi^H^H^H mentally challenged? person bought OmniFocus and then threw a tantrum because it didn't do whatever feature that a cheaper or free application does and OmniGroup dutifully intervenes and says "here's your money back go away".

If they're buying OmniFocus to manage a shopping list, they're not cost-driven customers. If they'll pay USD$20 for a Shopping List, they'd probably pay $30, and they may never even interact with OmniGroup or their users in any way.

As for upgrade prices on OmniProducts, I've purchased OmniFocus on iPad, iPhone and OS X, OmniGraffle Pro and I didn't even know that there was an upgrade price available on OmniGraffle Pro. In the case of OmniGraffle Pro, I would consider an upgrade price to be a way to convert a purchaser that wouldn't buy the product at all because the current version suits their needs. It's a marketing move more than a customer/brand retention one.

I can't be the only one that finds it difficult to have a conversation about cost/ROI when we're a user base that purchases a premium brand of computer or mobile device and specialized software on top of that. A refined and polished experience is what everyone here expects, and we haven't exactly been paying market rate for our user experience, hardware and software since 1984, have we?

whpalmer4

2010-10-06, 08:54 AM

A refined and polished experience is what everyone here expects, and we haven't exactly been paying market rate for our user experience, hardware and software since 1984, have we?
It seems to me that we have been paying market rate for a refined and polished experience, hardware, and software. The market rate for the Windows/Dell experience is lower, though, and our market appears to be smaller. There are some who have difficulty grasping the concept that our often superior experience might actually justify the price, I've noticed ;)

jb510

2010-10-06, 12:22 PM

It's always easy to jump on the band wagon and call for lower prices, and I'm going to as well, but it is a considered jumping on.

Let me start by saying that I think OF Desktop is over priced to start with. It's a great app, but $40 would be an attractive price and having used it I'd still be willing at $50, but $80 is just too steep IMHO.

Further let me say up front that I find apps that COULD be combined iPhone/iPad apps but aren't to be patently obnoxious. I think of it as buying a mobile app, not as buying one app for my phone and another for my iPad. I think the same of desktop apps that are restricted to a single machine. A single user shouldn't have to buy a separate license for their laptop and their desktop.

Even then, if there was a combined app, I think that app should have been priced around $25. As it is we've got to spend $60 to get both.

The iPhone app is nice, but it's not really usable as a stand alone product, it's usefulness comes from syncing with the desktop version. The iPad app might be fully usable for some, but I still think of it as an accessory to the desktop version. Making people pay nearly as much for the accessories as the actual product irks me.

By comparison, Things which is essentially similar to OF (and I think actually offers better sync services, more on that later) is $50 for the desktop app (fair), $20 for iPad (fair) and $10 for iPhone (fair)... still I don't think the iPad and iPhone apps should be separate apps, but the overall pricing seems more reasonable to me.

As for sync'ing services which is why I came to the forums today. I understand OF isn't really optimized for network based syncing, and that the infinite undo ability probably makes that extremely difficult, but ubiquitous instant syncing between devices is the very least I would expect if paying those sorts of prices. WebDAV (which I use) is a start, but DropBox ought to be supported as well.

The saving grace for OmniGroup's pricing is their great support, but the lack of ubiquitous instant syncing is the overriding reason I think the mobile apps simply aren't worth anything near their price tags.

gopi

2010-10-06, 01:57 PM

Further let me say up front that I find apps that COULD be combined iPhone/iPad apps but aren't to be patently obnoxious. I think of it as buying a mobile app, not as buying one app for my phone and another for my iPad. I think the same of desktop apps that are restricted to a single machine. A single user shouldn't have to buy a separate license for their laptop and their desktop.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that there is significant extra development work for the iPad version. The laptop/desktop example is one where they are charging you twice for the same thing.

OmniFocus for iPad was a significant amount of extra work. If they didn't charge for that version, they would've had to charge more for the iPhone version.

Making people pay nearly as much for the accessories as the actual product irks me.

Accessories that have a significant amount or R&D, and that many customers will not want.

iPad keyboard: $70
Case:$40
Car charger: $30
Headset: $30
iWork: $30
Total: $200
That's a fairly normal set of accessories for an iPad.

As for sync'ing services which is why I came to the forums today. I understand OF isn't really optimized for network based syncing, and that the infinite undo ability probably makes that extremely difficult, but ubiquitous instant syncing between devices is the very least I would expect if paying those sorts of prices. WebDAV (which I use) is a start, but DropBox ought to be supported as well.

By network, you mean LAN, right?

Does things support WAN / remote syncing yet? Haven't they promised that for a long, long time?

I share an OmniFocus database with my wife. It is on two iPhones, three iPads and a MacBook Pro. I hit sync when I'm done making changes and the database is quickly synced, whether I'm on a LAN or a WAN.

I would hate to have to open up the app on my iPhone and iPad before I put my laptop to sleep.

Even when I was keeping one iPhone and one laptop in sync, I preferred OF sync to LAN sync.

hypotyposis

2010-10-06, 08:37 PM

emory

2010-10-06, 09:07 PM

It seems to me that we have been paying market rate for a refined and polished experience, hardware, and software. The market rate for the Windows/Dell experience is lower, though, and our market appears to be smaller. There are some who have difficulty grasping the concept that our often superior experience might actually justify the price, I've noticed ;)

Oh, I couldn't agree more. I find it hard to believe that anyone using an iPad and also using an iPhone or a Mac is batting an eye at 40 dollars or is all that cost-sensitive.

If you need OmniFocus for the iPad, the price is right to get it and also meet the balance against development and support costs. They probably could have charged another $9 and only lost double-digits of customers.

whpalmer4

2010-10-06, 09:59 PM

Further let me say up front that I find apps that COULD be combined iPhone/iPad apps but aren't to be patently obnoxious. I think of it as buying a mobile app, not as buying one app for my phone and another for my iPad.

There is a combined app for the price-conscious. Run the iPhone app! What's that you say, you want the extra features and display tailored to the iPad? Well, that is why you pay extra, just like if you want all the features in Photoshop CS5 instead of the less-powerful Photoshop Elements. Photoshop COULD be a combined app, you know...

RiK

2010-10-07, 01:56 AM

I can never really understand this attitude that some people seem to feel they are 'entitled' to every piece of pro-grade software that exists, whether they need it or not.

The chances are, if you think it's too expensive then you really don't *need* it and one of the more cost-effective solutions would be more than enough to suit your need.

For example, I'm a photographer and I often hear people moaning about the price of Photoshop, and yet they're not involved in the graphics industry and barely take any photos other than holiday snaps. They don't need it, Elements or even iPhoto would be more than plenty for all their needs. They just *want* it, because they've heard it's cool.

Photography is a major part of my life and so I bought the full Adobe Creative Suite, and Lightroom too. They are an absolutely key part of my daily workflow and more than worth the asking price because I use them every day for several hours. I spend far more hours using Photoshop than I do in my car so the value to me is obvious.

I've already said several times that OmniFocus in it's three forms saves me literally hours of time every week. If it only saved me one hour it's paid for itself so the price to me is irrelevant. If I'd paid double the asking price I wouldn't be disappointed and I for one hope that Omni always charge the right price that allows them to continue making the quality of software that they do.

I'd suggest people consider the *real* value to them before they start moaning something is too expensive.

endoftheQ

2010-10-07, 09:07 AM

I'm finding the "qu'ils mangent de la brioche" posts regarding the relationship between hardware costs and Omni's App pricing difficult to grasp. :confused:

I don't know what the situation is in the USA but in the UK you can pick up an iPhone for £25 ($40) a month, which includes 5000 minutes (+500 xNet), 5000 SMS (texts) and 1G of data downloads.

Also, I've given away my last two iPhones and they are now on PAYG. I've bought a few iPads as gifts and they're top of my feral kin's Xmas wish-lists. I recall a couple of Members have posted that their iPads were 'presents'.

So, not everyone is nonchalantly doling out $1000 and then complaining about $40.

If I'm missing the point, happy to be enlightened! :)

gopi

2010-10-07, 11:17 AM

So, not everyone is nonchalantly doling out $1000 and then complaining about $40.

If I'm missing the point, happy to be enlightened! :)

There were people complaining about OmniFocus pricing as a percentage of iPad purchase price.

If anything, I have less sympathy for people who got a gadget for free and then don't want to buy accessories. If you can't afford what you need to use the gadget, too bad.

If somebody offered to give me a Bugatti Veyron, I would try to figure out how to politely suggest that I would need to sell the car and buy something inexpensive like a Rolls Royce or a Ferrari. I can't afford a stress analysis on my rims every few thousand miles, among other things, adding up to 5 or 6 figures in yearly operating costs. In that situation, I assume you would not be sympathetic to me complaining about upkeep.

endoftheQ

2010-10-08, 02:45 AM

If anything, I have less sympathy for people who got a gadget for free and then don't want to buy accessories. If you can't afford what you need to use the gadget, too bad.

If somebody offered to give me a Bugatti Veyron, I would try to figure out how to politely suggest that I would need to sell the car and buy something inexpensive like a Rolls Royce or a Ferrari. I can't afford a stress analysis on my rims every few thousand miles, among other things, adding up to 5 or 6 figures in yearly operating costs. In that situation, I assume you would not be sympathetic to me complaining about upkeep.

Thanks Gopi, but I'm afraid your analogy just confuses me further! :confused:

I take it you'd accept that there are plenty of great Apps out there that are free or 59p (99¢), whilst OmniFocus is $40. I can't imagine that the majority of things designed to go with a Bugatti are free or extremely affordable and only the stress analysis is expensive?

OK, I honestly don't want any Member of this Board thinking I'm trying to indulge myself in some kind of troll-like behaviour, and arguing for the sake of it, but I am now seriously trying to answer the question:

"what is it that makes Omni's products so special that justifies the premium prices?".

A refined and polished experience is what everyone here expects

There are some who have difficulty grasping the concept that our often superior experience might actually justify the price

I appreciate 'to each his own' and with no disrespect intended, but IMHO the initial releases have been anything but refined, polished or a superior experience.

which would mean that they should actually pay you to use them. And then they should thank you for doing so.

I thoroughly enjoyed the tongue-in-cheek post Hypotyposis, but with my hand-on-heart, although I haven't actually felt that Omni should be paying me, I have believed maybe they shouldn't be charging me $40 for what have felt like beta-tests.

For example, I'm a photographer and I often hear people moaning about the price of Photoshop, and yet they're not involved in the graphics industry and barely take any photos other than holiday snaps. They don't need it, Elements or even iPhoto would be more than plenty for all their needs. They just *want* it, because they've heard it's cool.

Great post RiK, and I'll 'fess up, 'guilty-as-charged'! I have a yacht which I don't need (just always wanted!) and the cost/benefit ratio is probably the same as diamond-encrusted peanuts. Actually, I take that back, the peanuts would have been a much better deal!

At least Omni has yet to take a leaf out of Adobe's book and force us to use their software! :)

hypotyposis

2010-10-08, 04:11 AM

At least Omni has yet to take a leaf out of Adobe's book and force us to use their software! :)

That's the point: this is a free market, there is no monopoly, and Omni is decent enough to offer a 30-day refund policy. If you don't think the products are worth the money, you're free to either not buy them, or to return them for refund. I really don't see why there's any need to keep arguing about this. Either you believe in some principles of a capitalist economics, comrade, and then if Omni is really overpriced in comparison to their competitors there's no reason to believe they'll keep afloat for too too long, or you don't, and then frankly what is the point in arguing the price?

whpalmer4

2010-10-08, 05:33 AM

"what is it that makes Omni's products so special that justifies the premium prices?".

I appreciate 'to each his own' and with no disrespect intended, but IMHO the initial releases have been anything but refined, polished or a superior experience.

I was under the impression that we were talking about the Apple ecosystem pricing in general, given the 1984 reference, and my post was made in that mindset, as I think should have been discernible from the Windows/Dell mention! If that wasn't enough of a clue, can you tell me about the Omni hardware products? :)

endoftheQ

2010-10-08, 05:44 AM

That's the point: this is a free market, there is no monopoly, and Omni is decent enough to offer a 30-day refund policy. If you don't think the products are worth the money, you're free to either not buy them, or to return them for refund. I really don't see why there's any need to keep arguing about this.

OK, Hypotyposis, I'm genuinely not trying to wind you up (or anyone else for that matter!) but I'm still not getting it. I also accept that I may just be incredibly dumb!

My question (?) was:

"What is it that makes Omni's products so special that justifies the premium prices?".

If you'd answered "OmniFocus is the best fundi-GTD App" I'd probably argue that (in my book) Atomic is the best web browser App, GoodReader is the best PDF reader, etc. but they don't feel the need to charge $40, both are 59p (99¢) Apps.

However, if you said (and I'm not for one second suggesting you are!) "OmniFocus at $40 makes me an exclusive member of a niche GTD club and at that price-point it keeps the riff-raff out", OK, that I can totally accept, understand and appreciate. :)

You're right, I don't have to buy. I can also get a refund. No argument! But that's not what I'm asking. I'm trying to learn why you (and other Members) appear so 'laissez faire' regarding Omni's premium pricing.

endoftheQ

2010-10-08, 06:00 AM

I was under the impression that we were talking about the Apple ecosystem pricing in general, given the 1984 reference, and my post was made in that mindset, as I think should have been discernible from the Windows/Dell mention! If that wasn't enough of a clue, can you tell me about the Omni hardware products? :)

I hope you'll accept my sincere apologies, whpalmer4, it was stupid of me to even think you might use words such as refined, polished or a superior experience in regard to OmniFocus on the iPad! :p

whpalmer4

2010-10-08, 06:02 AM

I hope you'll accept my sincere apologies, whpalmer4, it was stupid of me to even think you might use words such as refined, polished or a superior experience in regard to OmniFocus on the iPad! :p

Or to put such a nuanced post where you might read it, eh? :p

RiK

2010-10-08, 08:33 AM

However, if you said (and I'm not for one second suggesting you are!) "OmniFocus at $40 makes me an exclusive member of a niche GTD club and at that price-point it keeps the riff-raff out"

That works for me, I'm all in favour of keeping the riff raff out!

You're right, I don't have to buy. I can also get a refund. No argument! But that's not what I'm asking. I'm trying to learn why you (and other Members) appear so 'laissez faire' regarding Omni's premium pricing.

To me, it isn't premium pricing. It's perfectly reasonable pricing for a quality application.

I think the problem is so many other apps going in with stupidly low prices affecting peoples perception. I mean seriously, doesn't it seem crazy to pay less than a bar of chocolate for a rock-solid business application that you use every day? Seriously?

How much is your average video game that people play for a few hours and then it never touch again? Then compare that to the cost of OmniFocus which we use every day.

Just how long will the people making the 59p apps survive? What's their motivation to keep providing support and updates when they've made pennies from each customer? How likely are their customers to put a value on their service or their products in the future?

How would you feel if you spent thousands of man-hours working on something and someone told you they though it was worth less then the cost of a can of coke?

hypotyposis

2010-10-08, 09:18 AM

My question (?) was:

"What is it that makes Omni's products so special that justifies the premium prices?".
(...)
I'm trying to learn why you (and other Members) appear so 'laissez faire' regarding Omni's premium pricing.

Determining whether $40 is a premium price or not is a very relative question, depending on a user's particular circumstances. It could very well be that some users consider it a "premium price" but find some functionality in OF that they can't find elsewhere, justifying the cost. It's obviously the case that many people don't consider $40 a premium price, whether it is because they are wealthy enough to spend this sum freely, or because e.g. they find it a reasonable cost for a business tool.
But this doesn't contradict my initial reaction: as far as I understand, in a free market, there is no way to directly impose one's wishes upon a company's pricing other than supply/demand. If users didn't think that the price was right, they would (or should) not buy or get a refund. What else do you expect when you say that current users appear (?) "laissez faire"? Us to besiege Omni's headquarters and take their families hostages until they reached the price point we thought was appropriate? Since the "perfect price" is different amongst different users, perhaps there should be duels between them first?

hypotyposis

2010-10-08, 09:26 AM

That works for me, I'm all in favour of keeping the riff raff out!

To me, it isn't premium pricing. It's perfectly reasonable pricing for a quality application.

I think the problem is so many other apps going in with stupidly low prices affecting peoples perception. I mean seriously, doesn't it seem crazy to pay less than a bar of chocolate for a rock-solid business application that you use every day? Seriously?

How much is your average video game that people play for a few hours and then it never touch again? Then compare that to the cost of OmniFocus which we use every day.

Just how long will the people making the 59p apps survive? What's their motivation to keep providing support and updates when they've made pennies from each customer? How likely are their customers to put a value on their service or their products in the future?

How would you feel if you spent thousands of man-hours working on something and someone told you they though it was worth less then the cost of a can of coke?

To answer your question personally, however: $40 is under 20 minutes of work. I use OF everyday for both professional and personal matters, and it facilitates my management of both. It is one of the very, very few pieces of software I have never have a data integrity issue with; other minor issues are dealt with by the best customer service in the industry (IMHO) and a healthy and active user community. The time I spend replying to your (amusing) debates on the forums I could probably have spent working enough to more than repay for all of the OG products I've ever bought. So to me it's really not a "premium" price.

endoftheQ

2010-10-08, 11:13 AM

That works for me, I'm all in favour of keeping the riff raff out!

OK, for me it's up there with frock designers licencing their names to carcinogenic compounds, but I do 'get' it!

I think the problem is so many other apps going in with stupidly low prices affecting peoples perception. I mean seriously, doesn't it seem crazy to pay less than a bar of chocolate for a rock-solid business application that you use every day? Seriously?

I agree (!), and to quote myself:

Apple's App Store has changed my perception of software being a considered investment to it becoming a disposable commodity. I buy, on average, 2-3 Apps a day, of which 99.9% get junked. I view this buying pattern in the same way as my daily Starbucks and with the same commitment.

OK, back to you RiK.

How much is your average video game that people play for a few hours and then it never touch again? Then compare that to the cost of OmniFocus which we use every day.

mmhhh, not so compelling. I'd have to work it out but I believe my feral kin seem to have the Halo/OmniFocus minutes-per-$ value scenario well cracked!

Just how long will the people making the 59p apps survive? What's their motivation to keep providing support and updates when they've made pennies from each customer? How likely are their customers to put a value on their service or their products in the future?

I'm almost on board... I recalled Ken saying:

Unfortunately, as you point out, we don't have any way to offer upgrade discounts on the App Store at this time. So, instead, we've been just releasing all of our updates for free. (We probably can't continue to do that forever, but we started lobbying Apple to add upgrade pricing to the App Store before the App Store even opened.)

If Ken saw which way the wind was blowing regarding Apple's upgrade pricing policy even before the App Store launch, and has factored in the cost of foreseeable future upgrades, then $40 seems less unreasonable.

How would you feel if you spent thousands of man-hours working on something and someone told you they though it was worth less then the cost of a can of coke?

Oh shi*! Now I'm back where I started! :eek:

It also takes hundreds-of-thousands of man-hours every day to bring me that can of Coke at 59p! So, Coca-Cola have obviously taken Mr. Jobs advice to heart and are practicising: "price competitively, go for volume"!

newtronan

2010-10-09, 02:32 AM

I paid for OF via Ipad. Do I have to pay an additional $40 to download it to / use it on my Imac?

endoftheQ

2010-10-09, 05:28 AM

I paid for OF via Ipad. Do I have to pay an additional $40 to download it to / use it on my Imac?

Hi Newtronan,

Unfortunately yes, and I'm afraid it's not an additional $40 but $80, see this link (https://store.omnigroup.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/OnlineStore.woa/1/wo/943zWFXbhtyK2p8hrTpJ7eOjZCl/0.0.16.1.2.1.2).

There's a two week free trial of the desktop program, which even if you didn't decide to keep it, should allow you time to do your initial entering and set up any perspectives you might want.

If the combined $120 falls outside your budget, Omni does offer a 30-day money-back guarantee on it's Apps.

Sorry not to be more helpful. :(

newtronan

2010-10-09, 08:04 AM

EndofQ -

Thx - actually quite helpful. The price isn't too concerning (I've heard rave reviews of OF). I'm a little surprised by the lack of clarity around total cost.

endoftheQ

2010-10-10, 04:25 AM

Hey Newtronan,

Glad to of been of service!

I agree, and have posted earlier in this thread, that IMHO Omni's (UK) App Store product info isn't very clear.

The blurb could do with a bit of a polish, especially in regard to usage, pricing, syncing, compatibility etc. I've in the past been tempted to say to people "it's obvious!" but then I came to use the Apps via OF on the desktop.

For example, I think it's very helpful that some Reviewers have taken it on themselves to stress that OmniFocus is primarily for committed GTD'ers rather than a task-management, to-do or list App.

Also, just a few days ago, a mate was disappointed that he'd purchased OF for the iPhone and found that he couldn't then purchase OF for the PC! I took another look at Omni's App Store info, as dispassionately as possible, and realised it isn't clear that OF for the desktop is only available for the Mac.

Hopefully, at some point in the future, Omni will redo their sales spiel in a way that might eliminate or at least minimise this kind of confusion.

Good luck with your GTD! :)

endoftheQ

2010-10-14, 05:28 AM

If you backup your files via iTunes sharing, I BELIEVE you should be able to overwrite your existing files (after a crash) with a backup, via iTunes sharing. Even if not, the ninjas will certainly help.

Unfortunately to back up and restore via iTunes you need a Mac or a PC. It may be unique to the UK but I'm still gobsmacked by the number of people that manage to purchase an iPhone or iPad without having either! At the moment, I have four log-ins on my laptop (three for iPhones, one for an iPad) for friends who didn't realise that access to a computer was necessary.

I think this may be caused by a combination of Apple's advertising and the various network retail outlets that don't explain to newcomers that their latest iGizmo won't work straight out of the box.

I also came unstuck recently on upgrading as, in the past, it has taken o2 between 12-24hrs to switch over to a new SIM. This last time I hadn't even left the store before it happened, leaving me first thing in the morning, miles from home, with two iPhones, neither of which worked!

As I've written elsewhere on this forum:

I have created an online tool that allows me to quickly enter in many items into OmniFocus at once (or rapid fire). You need to be careful to escape special characters, such as ampersands and apostrophes, but it has saved me countless hours, and makes it possible to use OmniFocus ONLY on my Touch.

Give it a try:

http://www.jeffyepstein.com/docs/computer/omnifocus_iphone_mass_import/

I tested it out Aliteralmind and it's certainly a help. I'm afraid that I still found it a chore to move the results into OF, ie. having to click each url separately and then do a save for each action (which I accept isn't your fault, but a limitation of OF).

I'm sorry, but I find it laughable that Omni hasn't grasped the basic need of being able to import and export from its Apps, to me it's like Microsoft Word not being able to open or save a .txt file.

It also (IMHO) beggars belief that Apps, such as iThoughts, that only cost a few bucks, can happily interchange data between other developers offerings but you can't do the same thing between Omni's own premium-priced products, ie. you can't export a project from OmniFocus and import it into OmniGraffle.

I know that I'm not alone in finding that a combination of pricing, lack of import/export and Omni's inexplicable need to flit after Apple's latest bright, shiny iGizmo is causing some of us long-term users not only to abandon Omni's Apps but also the associated desktop programs as well. :(

aliteralmind

2010-10-14, 05:58 AM

You make good points.

Easier import/export/backup/recovery sure would be nice. Dropbox saving/recovery of your database or project-opml export would be sweeeeet.

These workarounds are good for me, but it's only because I'm okay of these limitations (or ignorant of the possibilities :)

tml00

2010-10-22, 03:45 PM

I do not get it. I use OF primarily on my laptop. I bought OF for the iPhone to help deal with real-time updates when I don't have the laptop. I want OF for iPad for the same reason. It would not be my primary OF application/interface. To pay $40 for this convenience is so not worth it.

Brian

2010-10-22, 04:51 PM

tml00, our suggestion would be to run the iPhone app on the iPad. We certainly hope the App Store gives us more flexible pricing options someday, but in the meantime we have to work with the existing ones, which basically boils down to "one price for everyone, regardless of any purchases they may have made in the past".

endoftheQ

2010-10-24, 07:01 AM

tml00, our suggestion would be to run the iPhone app on the iPad.

In that case, wouldn't it be a great idea to make the iPhone App universal, insomuch that it could take advantage of the iPad screen estate without pixel-doubling?

I think Omni may have seriously missed a trick in not porting all its desktop programs over to the iPhone first (ok, maybe not OmniDazzle!) and offering this kind of universal solution, then concentrating on developing specific iPad versions.

As I mentioned in a previous post, the lack of iPhone versions is one of the reasons that myself and others have not only abandoned OG and OGS on the iPad but also the desktop programs. The fact the OO is only a strong possibility on the iPhone has led some of us to already abandon OO for Mac and seek other solutions, which means we won't be buying OO for the iPad either.

It's not that I would have any intention of doing anything complicated with OG, OGS or OO on my iPhone, but I do want to be able to carry my work around with me 24/7, perhaps making minor alterations but more importantly being able to distribute content on the go.

In my perfect world, I wish Omni had followed the OF route [ Mac > iPhone > iPad ] with its other programs, made the iPhone versions universal, incorporated the same cloud sync into them as OF and also added the ability to interchange data between them. After that, create a specific iPad App.

Unfortunately, it feels like I've ended up with half finished scenarios with completion pushed back every time Apple yells "hop!".

The Mac App Store anyone?