Please make a way to tell the difference between projects and task Forecast view!

[pik80]

I love the new Forecast feature but the one problem I have found with it so far is that I have no way to differentiate between tasks and projects. The problem with this is sometimes I will check a project thinking that I am marking off a task and I will instead check off all the tasks in the project! Please fix this somehow! Thanks!

[Greg Jones]

I had never noticed before that project and task titles appear the same in Forecast view, I suspect in part because of the naming convention that I use. I always begin my task titles with a verb and project titles with a noun, so I can always tell at a glance which is which in my lists.

[DrJJWMac]

I use a similar convention to G Jones ... tasks (actions) start with lower case verbs and Projects are always Capitalized Nouns (with no verbs).

That said, I would wish this issue were resolved in the context of a larger problem with the following symptoms:

* the iPhone version has no way to set a Project to auto-complete when its last task is done (as is possible on the Mac version)
* the badge counts of remaining "actions" counts a Project as an additional "task" even when that Project is to be "auto-completed" (and therefore is not really an additional task)
* Projects that are to be "auto-completed" show in lists of "actions" even when they are marked to be "auto-completed" (...)
* checking a Project completed checks all its actions, yet unchecking a Project does not uncheck all its actions regardless of the auto-complete state of the Project

Basically, the principled consequences of setting or not the auto-complete feature of a Project (as is an option on the Mac) are not fully enforced in practice through all possible user interactions with and user reviews of Projects or their underlying tasks.

[pik80]

I don't think that the nouns for projects and nouns and verbs for tasks would work for the way I do things. One example is for a project of items that I want to check out at the library. I don't need to type "check out (this) book" for every item in the library project, just giving the item's name alone is adequate. I know that because the item is in the library project that what I am supposed to do with the item is to check it out. I don't need to write "check out...." twenty times for each item.

An example of using a noun and verb for a project title would be "set up new email address" that I had to do recently. I can't just say "email" because I would confuse that with the project I have set up for people I need to email. The solution to this problem I think is easy enough. There just needs to an icon next to the project titles. It seems like a very easy fix.

[DrJJWMac]

Here are suggestions for both ...

********** CASE 1

Library Checkouts
-- * The Lord of the Rings
-- * The Hobbit
-- * Of Mice and Men
-- ...

Prefix actions with * in this case to denote a checklist. Personally, I would tend to keep a list of checkout items in the note field of a task or in a dedicated checklist app on my iPod.

********** CASE 2

Email Setup (project)
...

[Email] Notices (project)
...

One project is a Setup, the other has the notices (where the term "Email" is optional)

--
JJW

[whpalmer4]

That said, I would wish this issue were resolved in the context of a larger problem with the following symptoms:

* the iPhone version has no way to set a Project to auto-complete when its last task is done (as is possible on the Mac version)

Agreed, but it does honor the setting.

* the badge counts of remaining "actions" counts a Project as an additional "task" even when that Project is to be "auto-completed" (and therefore is not really an additional task)

Unless one's actions are truly uniform in duration, I find it hard to see how this is a big deal.

* Projects that are to be "auto-completed" show in lists of "actions" even when they are marked to be "auto-completed" (...)

This has a benefit — you can mark off that entire group as being done with a single tap. Not saying this is why the implementation came out the way it did, but it has its uses.

* checking a Project completed checks all its actions, yet unchecking a Project does not uncheck all its actions regardless of the auto-complete state of the Project

I agree that unchecking the project does not uncheck actions, but I was also unable to find a place where marking a project as complete caused uncompleted actions to be marked complete on iPad, iPod or Mac. Do you have an example?

Basically, the principled consequences of setting or not the auto-complete feature of a Project (as is an option on the Mac) are not fully enforced in practice through all possible user interactions with and user reviews of Projects or their underlying tasks.
Can you name any feature for which that is not true? :-)

[pik80]

I suppose that there are a lot of work arounds that would work for differentiating projects and tasks but it just seems like it would be a lot easier to have a project icon to differentiate the projects and tasks. It works this way on the Mac and elsewhere in iOS so it would be nice to have the project icon present in Forecast mode as well.

[DrJJWMac]

Unless one's actions are truly uniform in duration, I find it hard to see how this is a big deal.

I'd like not to have to puzzle why a badge count is telling me I have 6 more steps to complete a project when in truth I really only have 3.

This has a benefit — you can mark off that entire group as being done with a single tap. Not saying this is why the implementation came out the way it did, but it has its uses.

Granted ... however on a task list, that advantage can also lead to confusion (as noted by the author of this thread) and possible accidents (ooops ... I just checked off that entire group when I really was not finished with its last three actions).

A general iPod preference setting would help ... [ ] Show (Contained) Action Groups in Forecast View. The optional (Contained) term could distinguish "complete with last action" (contained) groups from their kin (open) groups. But then, this is splitting hairs ... just include a preference or toggle to show/hide Action Groups in Forecast View on the iPod.

I agree that unchecking the project does not uncheck actions, but I was also unable to find a place where marking a project as complete caused uncompleted actions to be marked complete on iPad, iPod or Mac. Do you have an example?

I think we are saying the same thing here. I'll amend though to state that I would be happy if unchecking a group/project while holding a modifier would uncheck all of its contents. That would be a time saver.

Can you name any feature for which that is not true? :-)

OK, that's true ...

--
JJW

[whpalmer4]

I'd like not to have to puzzle why a badge count is telling me I have 6 more steps to complete a project when in truth I really only have 3.

Easy fix for that — don't! If there's a number there, there's work to be done, just do it. The only time you need to audit the badge count is if it still says there is work to be done, and you can't find it.

Granted ... however on a task list, that advantage can also lead to confusion (as noted by the author of this thread) and possible accidents (ooops ... I just checked off that entire group when I really was not finished with its last three actions).

Well, you can accidentally check off a project or action group in project mode, too. I suppose not having the auto-complete ones show up at all somewhat reduces the risk of fat-fingering it, depending on how often you use the auto-complete option, but it seems like a more complete solution would be to either not show project/action group headers at all in task lists (already an option in context mode, and perhaps forecast view ought to respect the setting as well) or remove the ability to check them off without first completing the actions.


I think we are saying the same thing here. I'll amend though to state that I would be happy if unchecking a group/project while holding a modifier would uncheck all of its contents. That would be a time saver.


Your original text was "checking a Project completed checks all its actions" and I disagree, having found no place where I can produce that behavior. Apparently we aren't saying quite the same thing :-)

Uncheck the group/project, select the contents, right-click and uncheck Complete. No joy on the iOS devices, but your modifier proposal doesn't work there, either.

The iPad app handles the issue of differentiating actions and projects/action groups by styling the projects and action groups differently (in a bold font). Unfortunately, the iPhone/iPod app uses that bold font all the time...

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7728/img0755.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/img0755.png/)

[Brian]

* the iPhone version has no way to set a Project to auto-complete when its last task is done (as is possible on the Mac version)
* the badge counts of remaining "actions" counts a Project as an additional "task" even when that Project is to be "auto-completed" (and therefore is not really an additional task)
* Projects that are to be "auto-completed" show in lists of "actions" even when they are marked to be "auto-completed" (...)
* checking a Project completed checks all its actions, yet unchecking a Project does not uncheck all its actions regardless of the auto-complete state of the Project

I remember seeing your support ticket go by in our system - just double-checked; with the exception of the last item, everything was filed.

Regarding the last request - it's an understandable request; I made it once myself a number of years back. There are a couple of things going on here that aren't immediately apparent, though. A feature like that would mean writing a lot of code that duplicates the existing code that "Undo" gives us. It also would be unlikely to work as well as the existing features in OS X and iOS do. It would be a lot of work for very little actual benefit, in other words.

Since an existing feature of the OS does a good job of handling this situation, we feel there are other things we should work on adding to our apps. Everything else is possible, however. :-)

[DrJJWMac]

Easy fix for that — don't! If there's a number there, there's work to be done, just do it. The only time you need to audit the badge count is if it still says there is work to be done, and you can't find it.

Yep for sure during a work flow. However, my review flow is different than my work flow, and I am just being principled about it for the sake of the review process.

Alternatively, one might ask for a preference setting to just show a colored dot as a badge without containing a count of "actionable items". It could even be a "perspective dependent" setting. That is one change I could swallow right away, because, as you suggest, I hardly pay attention to the exact number in the count box during a work flow process (especially since I know it is ambiguous anyway). I sometimes do want to process with repect to that number during my review processes though.

.. but it seems like a more complete solution would be to either not show project/action group headers at all in task lists (already an option in context mode, and perhaps forecast view ought to respect the setting as well) or remove the ability to check them off without first completing the actions.

Yep. I agree here. Forecast mode is where the trouble is. I would imagine holy terror will arise should OG remove the existing "auto-complete" feature on Action Groups. That leaves modifying the how Action Groups (auto-complete or otherwise) are handled/displayed in Forecast mode as a more viable choice.

Your original text was "checking a Project completed checks all its actions" ....

Oh! I meant checking a GROUP completed / uncompleted. I missed that note even after you pointed it out directly. My apologies. I'll go bang my head against a brick wall a few times to make amends ... :\

In this regard, as Brian has noted already, the UNDO option gets me back on the Mac (and I did not even think about it ... duh!!!)

The iPad app handles the issue of differentiating actions and projects/action groups by styling the projects and action groups differently ...

An equivalent distinction would be very helpful to have on the iPod version for sure.

Thanks!

--
JJW

[DrJJWMac]

...Since an existing feature of the OS does a good job of handling this situation, we feel there are other things we should work on adding to our apps. Everything else is possible, however. :-)

Thanks. Good information to "remember" (about undo), and good news also to hear (about feature requests).

--
JJW

[whpalmer4]

Alternatively, one might ask for a preference setting to just show a colored dot as a badge without containing a count of "actionable items".

Now this I can help you with today :-)
http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=95831&postcount=7

Unfortunately, you have to restart OmniFocus when you change this, and the strings are a bit tedious to type, but you could write a shell script or two to do the dirty work for you to switch between a "Review" view (with numbered badges) and a "Work" view (with just the colored dots).

Yep. I agree here. Forecast mode is where the trouble is. I would imagine holy terror will arise should OG remove the existing "auto-complete" feature on Action Groups. That leaves modifying the how Action Groups (auto-complete or otherwise) are handled/displayed in Forecast mode as a more viable choice.

I'm assuming you mean the feature where checking the action group completes all the contained actions, not the feature where the action group is automatically checked off when you complete the last contained action. I don't know that I would get very upset about the former going away, given the ability to select a group of actions and mark them completed in a single operation I previously mentioned. If Omni is getting lots of support calls from people who are getting bitten, I could understand putting a safety guard on the sharp blade, so to speak, even if it is a little less convenient for the power user. It certainly wouldn't be the first time, and I'm sure it wouldn't be the last.


Oh! I meant checking a GROUP completed / uncompleted. I missed that note even after you pointed it out directly. My apologies. I'll go bang my head against a brick wall a few times to make amends ... :\

No sweat, I forgot that projects and action groups behave differently in this particular regard!

[DrJJWMac]

Now this I can help you with today :-)
http://forums.omnigroup.com/showpost.php?p=95831&postcount=7

Unfortunately, you have to restart OmniFocus when you change this, and the strings are a bit tedious to type, but you could write a shell script or two to do the dirty work for you to switch between a "Review" view (with numbered badges) and a "Work" view (with just the colored dots).

Thanks. I remember glancing over this post. I'll consider writing a script hanging on a FastScripts call to toggle the state.

--
JJW

[whpalmer4]

Perhaps I can save you the trouble:


-- button labels for dialog
property pWork : "Work"
property pReview : "Review"
property pReset : "Reset"
-- strings for shell commands to set OmniFocus parameters
property pDefaultsWriteCommand : "defaults write"
property pDefaultsDeleteCommand : "defaults delete"
property pOmniFocusDomain : "com.omnigroup.OmniFocus "
-- badge names
property pInboxBadge : "InboxBadge"
property pAvailableBadge : "AvailableBadge"
property pDueSoonBadge : "DueSoonBadge"
property pOverdueBadge : "OverdueBadge"
-- badge options
property pCount : "count"
property pDot : "dot"
property pNone : "none"

-- Set up preferred badge settings here. Badge options are {pCount, pDot, pNone}.
property pReviewAvailableBadge : pCount
property pReviewDueSoonBadge : pCount
property pReviewOverdueBadge : pCount
property pReviewInboxBadge : pCount

property pWorkAvailableBadge : pDot
property pWorkDueSoonBadge : pDot
property pWorkOverdueBadge : pDot
property pWorkInboxBadge : pDot

on run
set recReply to display dialog "Set badges for Work or Review?" buttons {pWork, pReview, pReset}
set btnChosen to button returned of recReply

tell application "System Events"
if (exists process "OmniFocus") then
tell application "OmniFocus" to quit
end if
repeat until not (exists process "OmniFocus")
delay 0.2 -- give it some time to do so
end repeat
end tell

if btnChosen is pWork then
SetDefault(pAvailableBadge, pWorkAvailableBadge)
SetDefault(pDueSoonBadge, pWorkDueSoonBadge)
SetDefault(pOverdueBadge, pWorkOverdueBadge)
SetDefault(pInboxBadge, pWorkInboxBadge)
else if btnChosen is pReview then
SetDefault(pAvailableBadge, pReviewAvailableBadge)
SetDefault(pDueSoonBadge, pReviewDueSoonBadge)
SetDefault(pOverdueBadge, pReviewOverdueBadge)
SetDefault(pInboxBadge, pReviewInboxBadge)
else if btnChosen is pReset then
ResetDefault(pAvailableBadge)
ResetDefault(pDueSoonBadge)
ResetDefault(pOverdueBadge)
ResetDefault(pInboxBadge)
end if

activate application "OmniFocus" -- restart OmniFocus with new settings
end run

on SetDefault(sBadge, pSetting)
do shell script pDefaultsWriteCommand & space & pOmniFocusDomain & space & sBadge & space & pSetting
end SetDefault

on ResetDefault(sBadge)
try
do shell script pDefaultsDeleteCommand & spcae & pOmniFocusDomain & space & sBadge
on error
-- probably didn't have a setting to delete
end try
end ResetDefault



This script offers 3 choices (Work, Review, Reset). Work and Review set the badges as configured near the top of the script (default being colored dot for work, number for review), Reset returns them to the factory settings. OmniFocus then quits and reopens with the new settings.