[frankly]

Originally Posted by Toadling

All the bugs? I haven't found OmniFocus to be particularly buggy, and I use it a lot. Sure, there are a few niggling issues, but overall it's a pretty solid 1.0 release (as good or better than most 1.0 releases). Also, be careful to separate fixes from enhancements. A desired new feature is not a bug.

I would (and have) whole-heartedly recommended OmniFocus to others.

I am a software developer so I am careful and know that I am talking about bugs. Also, is the bar so low that we expect bugs in a 1.0 release? What are alpha and beta releases for if not to get rid of these things before releasing into production? I know that you can't get it perfect on the first try but when I developed software if a bug were found that was affecting the use of the application we didn't add it to a list of bugs and plan to release all the fixes at once. We fixed it, tested the fix, and deployed it. This idea that they have all of these bug fix releases planned tells me they know about a bunch of bugs and are taking a good amount of time to fix them. Once people invest money in your product I think they deserve fast service. How about a reply from support within 24 hours at least?

Know bugs acknowledged by Omni in the forums:
http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=6722

I've only been using it for a few days and have found the following:

1) Checking the Show Soon and Overdue actions in the menu bar and Dock would not work. Then all of a sudden the next day they started working.
2) Even though you tell it to sort things by due date they don't sort. I currently have items sorted by due date and OmniFocus has them ordered like this: 2/29, 2/21, 2/26. How in the heck can you get organized if you have items that are due today displayed below items that are due next week?

I'm sorry but things like this that make you waste your time trying to figure out why they don't work is ridiculous, especially from a piece of software whose main function is to help you save time and get things done!!!

[Toadling]

Originally Posted by frankly

Also, is the bar so low that we expect bugs in a 1.0 release?

No, I don't expect glaring bugs in a 1.0 release. But, in reality, a software developer such as yourself (and many others on these forums) should know that releases, particularly 1.0 releases, are often under enormous pressure in both time and resources. So while I don't like to see bugs, the simple fact of the matter is that it's not unusual to see a few in the first release. As a software developer, have any of your 1.0 releases been entirely bug-free? Heck, have any of your software releases been entirely bug-free? If so, you are truly a gifted developer and in the extreme minority.

Originally Posted by frankly

What are alpha and beta releases for if not to get rid of these things before releasing into production?

Having participated in the alpha and beta programs, it seems to me that the vast majority of reported major faults were fixed in those iterations. Others bugs still exist (with arguably minor impact), but at some point you just have to ship the product.

Originally Posted by frankly

I know that you can't get it perfect on the first try but when I developed software if a bug were found that was affecting the use of the application we didn't add it to a list of bugs and plan to release all the fixes at once. We fixed it, tested the fix, and deployed it. This idea that they have all of these bug fix releases planned tells me they know about a bunch of bugs and are taking a good amount of time to fix them.

You don't follow a planned release cycle for your products, where bug fixes and features are accumulated and released at periodic intervals? It sounds like you deploy a new release for each and every fix. Isn't that inefficient?

I think Omni's approach is more typical in the industry. I know it's certainly the process in my company, but then we're a much larger operation than OmniGroup with over 70 developers working on a single product.

As for having releases mapped out into the future, have you considered that some of the included fixes might just be very complicated and require more time to get right? Or maybe they're dependent on an OS-related bug that first needs to be fixed by Apple. In those cases, it makes sense to plan smaller releases in the interim to get at least some of the fixes out into the field, then release others later. I don't see a problem with this. In fact, it suggests that Omni is doing a good job prioritizing fixes and planning their release cycles - exactly what I'd expect from an organization of professional software engineers that follow a process.

Anyway, it's only a been a little over a month since OmniFocus 1.0 was released. A week or two of that time was surely consumed by Macworld. That leaves 4 weeks or less since the initial release. That doesn't seem like very long at all.

Originally Posted by frankly

Once people invest money in your product I think they deserve fast service. How about a reply from support within 24 hours at least?

And for the most part, I think Omni Group customers do get fast service. That's one of the things Omni Group's reputation has been built on. I'd dare say few consumer software companies offer better service on such a large scale.

But to expect 24 hour response times is pretty demanding. I can't think of any consumer software companies that guarantee 24 response times across multiple products without the customer having to pay for a special service agreement.

Originally Posted by frankly

I've only been using it for a few days and have found the following:

1) Checking the Show Soon and Overdue actions in the menu bar and Dock would not work. Then all of a sudden the next day they started working.

I haven't seen this problem, nor have I read any reports of it here before now. Are you able to reproduce it? If not, there's insufficient information here for Omni to even start thinking about a fix. Still, if you're interested in participating in the community, you could send feedback about it to Omni and then keep an eye open for the issue to reoccur in the future.

Originally Posted by frankly

2) Even though you tell it to sort things by due date they don't sort. I currently have items sorted by due date and OmniFocus has them ordered like this: 2/29, 2/21, 2/26. How in the heck can you get organized if you have items that are due today displayed below items that are due next week?

Are you sorting in Planning Mode or Context Mode? Note than sorting works on projects in Planning Mode and on actions in Context Mode.

FWIW, I haven't seen any sorting problems on my system. But if you still see this problem, I'd encourage you to discuss it openly on these forums (there are lots of smart people here with deep knowledge of OmniFocus) and send feedback to OmniGroup if you're convinced there's a bug.

Originally Posted by frankly

I'm sorry but things like this that make you waste your time trying to figure out why they don't work is ridiculous, especially from a piece of software whose main function is to help you save time and get things done!!!

I'm sorry you feel like you're wasting your time. And there's no doubt that OmniFocus is a sophisticated app that can sometimes be confusing if you aren't familiar with it. And I'm sure there are some bugs that have yet to be worked out or even revealed. But from the examples you've given here and my own experience, I don't really see a significant problem.

[frankly]

1) I love how you question me about how many releases have been bug free, completely ignoring the subsequent paragraph (which you later quote) that states the approach I took when bugs presented themselves. Don't cherry-pick my posts. It doesn't help to further the conversation.

2) "but at some point you just have to ship the product." ????? Really??? They weren't delivering this to an outside client. They are under NO OBLIGATION to ever ship this product. The only obligation they have is to themselves. If this is your attitude toward software development then you WILL release buggy code.

3) Again, it helps if you actually read what I wrote. I did NOT say that we didn't follow a planned release schedule. What I DID say is if a bug were found that was affecting the use of the application we didn't add it to a list of bugs and plan to release all the fixes at once. We fixed it, tested the fix, and deployed it.

Let me repeat, if a bug were found that was affecting the use of the application we didn't add it to a list of bugs and plan to release all the fixes at once. We fixed it, tested the fix, and deployed it.

There are different levels of bugs to be sure but the one I mentioned about the sorting order is NOT one that I would let wait to be grouped with other fixes.

4) You may not be aware of any examples of exemplary customer service but that does not mean they don't exist. I deal with many companies that provide fast responses and they DO NOT require extra money in order to do this. Heck, Jet Brains (makers of IntelliJ IDEA) actually respond to queries in less than 30 minutes on EVERY occasion that I have asked them a question. Yes, less than 30 minutes.

5) So let me get this straight, the INTENDED function is that actions should not be sorted inside of projects? I suppose if that is how they INTENDED for it to work then it isn't a bug. It doesn't make any sense to me that it would work that way but I didn't create the specification for this product.

6) It is a waste of time, no matter who you are, to work through bugs just to be able to use a piece of software. Unless you are a paid tester then it is by definition a waste of your time. I'm not sure why you would have a problem with that statement.

[Dogsbreath]

I am inclined to agree about wanting to sort items by due date in planning mode.

I have a Next Actions Single Actions List and if I could sort them by due date I could find out which is the next due Action and its Context and move myself to working in that context if at all possible

[Toadling]

Originally Posted by Dogsbreath

I am inclined to agree about wanting to sort items by due date in planning mode.

I have a Next Actions Single Actions List and if I could sort them by due date I could find out which is the next due Action and its Context and move myself to working in that context if at all possible

That's a good suggestion, something Omni should seriously consider implementing. But it's not a bug.

As it is, I believe the feature is working as intended: sort by project in Planning Mode and by action in Context Mode. You may or may not agree with that design decision, but that's what was intended and I'm pretty sure that's what we got. Am I wrong?

[frankly]

Originally Posted by Toadling

That's a good suggestion, something Omni should seriously consider implementing. But it's not a bug.

As it is, I believe the feature is working as intended: sort by project in Planning Mode and by action in Context Mode. You may or may not agree with that design decision, but that's what was intended and I'm pretty sure that's what we got. Am I wrong?

I always love the "working as intended" line. If I code something to specs and it doesn't make any sense for it to work that way then yes, it is not a bug. But if it doesn't make sense for it to work that way it should have been caught during the planning process of the application. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only Dogsbreath and I have an issue with this. But it seems absolutely illogical that I would want to sort projects by due date and NOT have the actions inside of those projects ALSO sorted by due date.

[Ken Case]

Originally Posted by frankly

Let me repeat, if a bug were found that was affecting the use of the application we didn't add it to a list of bugs and plan to release all the fixes at once. We fixed it, tested the fix, and deployed it.

We identified the bugs in that Known Issues thread after we shipped 1.0. We immediately started working on fixing them, but we also posted those known issues to the forums to let people know about the problems rather than just pretending they didn't exist until we fixed them. (Some have already been fixed in the 1.0.1 sneaky peeks, but some people aren't testing those beta releases and we still want them to know about the issues.)

You may not be aware of any examples of exemplary customer service but that does not mean they don't exist.

We do try to reply to all support email within one business day, and for most of our products we've usually done much better than that (sometimes replying within minutes, frequently within hours).

Unfortunately for our support team, OmniFocus has been incredibly successful, with a product launch that far exceeds anything we've had for any of our other products. So even though we pre-hired two support people specifically to handle OmniFocus support email before we launched, they've still been overwhelmed—which is why we're hiring more. Hopefully we'll be back to our usual standards soon. (And we certainly won't be satisfied until we are!)

5) So let me get this straight, the INTENDED function is that actions should not be sorted inside of projects?

Yes, that's correct: we assume that the order of actions in a project is important, and so we never change that order in planning mode. (It can represent the dependencies in a sequential project, or the priorities in a parallel project.) It's easy to reorder actions if you want them in a different order, and we do offer the ability to select actions within a project and sort them manually (using the Sort submenu in the Edit menu).

[frankly]

Originally Posted by Ken Case

Yes, that's correct: we assume that the order of actions in a project is important, and so we never change that order in planning mode. (It can represent the dependencies in a sequential project, or the priorities in a parallel project.) It's easy to reorder actions if you want them in a different order, and we do offer the ability to select actions within a project and sort them manually (using the Sort submenu in the Edit menu).

When you put it that way it does make sense for a great deal of projects. I also appreciate the option to sort via the Edit menu. However, the sort options available via the Edit menu (By Name, By Date Added, By Date Completed) don't help. Is there a possibility we might see By Due Date added here? Date Added doesn't seem all that helpful. The nature of the way you suggest using OmniFocus is that you are just brain dumping tasks into it as opposed to thinking about it where the Date Added would come in handy. And Date Completed is only useful if you are viewing all items.

Am I the only one who has some of his "projects" as todo lists for certain ongoing projects? That is really why I need to sort the action items by due date within a project.

[Ken Case]

Originally Posted by frankly

However, the sort options available via the Edit menu (By Name, By Date Added, By Date Completed) don't help. Is there a possibility we might see By Due Date added here?

Yes, this is planned for 1.1.

Am I the only one who has some of his "projects" as todo lists for certain ongoing projects? That is really why I need to sort the action items by due date within a project.

That's perfectly reasonable; the way I do this is to use the Due Items perspective, which switches over to context mode and groups all my actions by their due date.

If you'd like to focus on a particular project while you're in context mode, you can click on an action from that project and select "Focus on [project]…" from the View menu.

Hope this helps!